Shuddhasattva
Well-Known Member
Already the ad hominem? You should go back to botting Prabhupad.
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Can you just tell which scriptures exactly are authentic? For example, which Upanishads/Samhitas/Puranas are authentic and which ones are fake?
"Fake" is an incorrect term. Rather, any human composition is prone to error, and thus, even the greatest of human-written Scripture is likely to have one or two errors. The Scriptures are still worth much and ought to be read; simply having errors does not remove their inherent values.
I quoted from the Srimad Bhagavatam. It is mentioned there, along with the verse.
You can choose to believe that every other scripture except the Vedas is subject to error. I KNOW that scriptures are transcendental knowledge, and are accepted by great rīṣīs, sages and transcendentalists, free from the four defects of conditioned souls, as said earlier. So, I choose to go with them on the matter than to speculate with my limited intelligence.
Padma Purana tells us that there are four authorized disciplic successions in this age of Kaliyuga. So, a scripturally accepted disciplic succession imparts transcendental knowledge, beyond defects of conditioned humans and is trustworthy.
We can choose to conveniently believe or not believe the scriptures. That still does not make the scriptures 'wrong' and us 'right'.
Because scriptures interfere with 'mental speculation' on Hinduism, many persons want to turn a blind eye towards them. Remarks like 'he knows....we do not' or end up banging their heads against a wall, does not change the fact that not one single scriptural evidence has been made to support these claims. At one time, majority of west believed that earth was flat, did it make the earth flat?
Wanting to exploit the vastness of Hinduism, keeping one's shallow knowledge over the infallible scriptures, mental speculation and teaching others the same, is beautifully described below:
"Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. Leave them; they are blind guides [of the blind]. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
Matthew 15:13-14
"Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher."
Luke 6:39-40
You mean you have never thought of anyone else, never lusted for someone else or had a relationship with someone else because, you 'love' your girlfriend and do not want to make her unhappy? For her happiness you have sacrificed everything and she has done so for you.
Are you kidding me?!!
Namaste
What is your take on the myriad different versions of the Vedas - all the shakhic recensions, rather as if scribes had organized sects (or sects had organized scribes?) How does this pair up with the claimed infallibility/timelessness of the Vedas?
Namaste
Still waiting for that explanation... you've had plenty of time to google the talking points.
You're not worth it!
Does it contradict your point that badly? Or do you have distaste for speaking of the wondrous rasas? Or have you let this be about me?
Discussing scriptures with someone who has no knowledge to impart, nothing to share, and has no willingness to learn; is a waste of time.
But then you can choose to believe what you must!
Already the ad hominem? You should go back to botting Prabhupad.
If that is your excuse ... for not knowing the scriptures!
If copy pasting Prabhupad's purports and talking points from ISKCON fundamentalist websites counts as "knowing scriptures," then by all means, I plead ignorant.
Uh, guys, this back-and-forth silliness isn't getting anywhere. I understand the frustration you guys are feeling for each other, but that's not an excuse for this kind of arguing.
I quoted from the Srimad Bhagavatam. It is mentioned there, along with the verse.
The jiva is blinded by ignorance; sometimes it is embodied as a man, sometimes as a woman, sometimes as a homosexual. According to its deeds and the nature it acquires thereby, it may be born as a deva, a human or a beast.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Srimad Bhagavatam 4.29.29.[/FONT]
You're right, thank you. Not only are we in violation of DIR rules, I'm also in violation of the sentiments I expressed in a thread sometime back.
That said, I view the pushing of these kinds of views supposedly on scriptural evidence to be a pollution of Hinduism.
Would it be acceptable to propose a 1:1 debate in the appropriate subforum between Vrindavana and I, moderated by mutually accepted judges, framed in various rules, with the loser agreeing to either leave the forum or convert to the victor's nominated religion?
But, then again, perhaps there's a bit of a misunderstanding. The fact is that Scriptures are not singular pieces of work; they've undergone numerous changes over the centuries. Even the great Mahabharata didn't spring fully formed into its current form from Sri Vyasa's mind and Lord Ganesha's pen. By that text's own admission, it started off as the much smaller work "Jaya", then became a much longer "Bharata". It later expanded in size to become its current form.
Therefore, even if the majority of a piece of Scripture is great, the fact is that there would still be several passages that were added later.
Seems to me that homosexuality is as natural for a jiva to be born as a homosexual as it is to be born as a woman or a horse or wart-hog.
You're right, thank you. Not only are we in violation of DIR rules, I'm also in violation of the sentiments I expressed in a thread sometime back.
That said, I view the pushing of these kinds of views supposedly on scriptural evidence to be a pollution of Hinduism.
Would it be acceptable to propose a 1:1 debate in the appropriate subforum between Vrindavana and I, moderated by mutually accepted judges, framed in various rules, with the loser agreeing to either leave the forum or convert to the victor's nominated religion?
Perhaps you do not realize that your sampradaya's dogmas are not in accord with shruti, and most smrti, because it rarely causes people to study other texts than its own narrow band of favorites?
Ipso facto, smrti is not infallible as admitted by smrti.
All scriptures have been derived from the Holy Vedas. Vedas were one. Later, Veda Vyāsa classified the Vedas into four categories. He also gave us the Puranas, Vedanta Sutrās, Mahābhārata, Srimad Bhagavatam etc.
Veda Vyāsa is an accepted 'shakta-veśa' avtār of Supreme Lord. In other words, He is the literary expansion of Supreme Lord. Earlier, Vedic knowledge was handed over aurally through word of mouth and in authorized disciplic succession. Later, as Kaliyuga approached, there was a need to pen down the scriptures as life span, memory and intelligence of persons of this age was extremely low. So, Veda Vyāsa, the empowered literary incarnation of Supreme Lord, authored and compiled the scriptures. Therefore, His work is above the common defects of conditioned souls, which I had enumerated earlier:
1. He is certain to commit mistakes
2. He is subject to illusion
3. He has a propensity to cheat others
4. His senses are imperfect.
So, at least I have no doubt that the scriptures are infallible. also, they have been accepted by great sages, rīṣīs and seers, who know much more than we can know. After all we are depending on the material creations like mind and intelligence to know the higher, transcendental spiritual truth. We cannot know something of superior nature, using inferior nature. It is not logical.