I have trouble understanding the Trinity

[Huey09]

This isn't a debate I've just decided to mull it over again after having been trying a Unitarian path for about three years. The principal parts I have confusion over are:

1. Why would the Son pray to himself or say he doesn't know the will of the Father if he is on the same level?
2. How does the three in one work without being slightly polytheistic?
3. Did most early Christians movements pre-Nicea Council follow this ideology
4. Can the Trinity be understood figuratively rather than literally?

Again I'm trying to debate I just really want to understand it but have great trouble wrapping my head around the concept.
P.S I haven't been on here in I think years so if there have been great changes help to adjust and its good to be back

 

[Desert Snake]

This isn't a debate I've just decided to mull it over again after having been trying a Unitarian path for about three years. The principal parts I have confusion over are:

1. Why would the Son pray to himself or say he doesn't know the will of the Father if he is on the same level?
2. How does the three in one work without being slightly polytheistic?
3. Did most early Christians movements pre-Nicea Council follow this ideology
4. Can the Trinity be understood figuratively rather than literally?

Again I'm trying to debate I just really want to understand it but have great trouble wrapping my head around the concept.
P.S I haven't been on here in I think years so if there have been great changes help to adjust and its good to be back

Traditional Xian belief, is that Jesus=JHVH. The early Bibles, made no distinction, for this reason, between what some call the 'father' title, /God, and the Deity titles which Jesus was referred. They mean the same thing. Technically, you have to read the text in that manner. There is no other 'traditional belief,' besides groups that have nothing to do with the Bible, /for obvious reasons, they contradict/.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This isn't a debate I've just decided to mull it over again after having been trying a Unitarian path for about three years. The principal parts I have confusion over are:

1. Why would the Son pray to himself or say he doesn't know the will of the Father if he is on the same level?
2. How does the three in one work without being slightly polytheistic?
3. Did most early Christians movements pre-Nicea Council follow this ideology
4. Can the Trinity be understood figuratively rather than literally?

Again I'm trying to debate I just really want to understand it but have great trouble wrapping my head around the concept.
P.S I haven't been on here in I think years so if there have been great changes help to adjust and its good to be back

The Trinity was Not part of 1st-century Christianity teachings, but added later - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30
So, one can Not wrap one's head around the concept.
God had No beginning - Psalms 90:2
The pre-human heavenly Jesus had a beginning - Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14
So, Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Traditional Xian belief, is that Jesus=JHVH. The early Bibles, made no distinction, for this reason, between what some call the 'father' title, /God, and the Deity titles which Jesus was referred. They mean the same thing. Technically, you have to read the text in that manner. There is no other 'traditional belief,' besides groups that have nothing to do with the Bible, /for obvious reasons, they contradict/.

Please notice Psalms 110:1 because the KJV uses the title LORD/Lord
The LORD ( in all upper-case letters ) stands for the Tetragrammaton JHVH or YHWH
The Lord ( in some lower-case letters ) stands for the Lord Jesus, and the Tetragrammaton never applies to Lord Jesus.
Traditional ( in the first century ) Christian belief is that God and His Son are distinct and not the same.

 

[Huey09]

The Trinity was Not part of 1st-century Christianity teachings, but added later - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30
So, one can Not wrap one's head around the concept.
God had No beginning - Psalms 90:2
The pre-human heavenly Jesus had a beginning - Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14
So, Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.

So that's like Arianism then? I know both contested the nature of Jesus but it was declared Heresy (What isn't these days)
If no one can understand the concept is that the pitch for why it makes sense? I heard once from a Methodist friend of mine "it doesn't make sense because we're humans"

 

[Corthos]

I always heard growing up that the trinity represented 3/3rds each part making 1/3rd... Like how an apple has it's flesh, it's skin, and it's core. All are apple, but all are individual parts as well.

In retrospect it does seem a little polytheistic. =/

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

You need to understand ancient Greek and their deep mythological concepts to understand the Trinity.
It is not mentioned in the earliest works such as the Didache. Though God. Jesus his son and the Holy Spirit were. At that stage they had not equated Jesus as God. like Christian Unitarians and the previous Arians do not.

If you read the full Athanasian Creed you will see how mystical it all is.

https://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

It would seem to me that the Trinity was an attempt to explain Jesus God like qualities, but with out introducing multiple God's

 

[Huey09]

I always heard growing up that the trinity represented 3/3rds each part making 1/3rd... Like how an apple has it's flesh, it's skin, and it's core. All are apple, but all are individual parts as well.

In retrospect it does seem a little polytheistic. =/

It makes my brain short circuit in a few ways

 

[Huey09]

You need to understand ancient Greek and their deep mythological concepts to understand the Trinity.
It is not mentioned in the earliest works such as the Didache. Though God. Jesus his son and the Holy Spirit were. At that stage they had not equated Jesus as God. like Christian Unitarians and the previous Arians do not.

If you read the full Athanasian Creed you will see how mystical it all is.

https://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

It would seem to me that the Trinity was an attempt to explain Jesus God like qualities, but with out introducing multiple God's

It is mystical but the mysticism leaves my head spinning and whenever I attempt to embrace it in a literal sense I am left full of doubt and confusion. And that's not something I think I can afford at this period in my life.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So that's like Arianism then? I know both contested the nature of Jesus but it was declared Heresy (What isn't these days)
If no one can understand the concept is that the pitch for why it makes sense? I heard once from a Methodist friend of mine "it doesn't make sense because we're humans"

The ^ above ^ sounds as if the Methodist disagrees with 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

Did Jesus' teachings make sense ?_______ Jesus taught his Father is greater than all - John 14:28; John 10:29 what is there Not to make sense or understand.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Revelation 3:12
How many thrones are mentioned at Revelation 3:21 ?________

 

[allfoak]

This isn't a debate I've just decided to mull it over again after having been trying a Unitarian path for about three years. The principal parts I have confusion over are:

1. Why would the Son pray to himself or say he doesn't know the will of the Father if he is on the same level?
2. How does the three in one work without being slightly polytheistic?
3. Did most early Christians movements pre-Nicea Council follow this ideology
4. Can the Trinity be understood figuratively rather than literally?

Again I'm trying to debate I just really want to understand it but have great trouble wrapping my head around the concept.
P.S I haven't been on here in I think years so if there have been great changes help to adjust and its good to be back

Maybe if you think of it this way it might help.

The Father is the All in All, the Ancient of days.
The Holy Spirit is the Fiery Mother.
The Son is the Souls of mankind.

Father Mother Son
Mind Spirit Soul

The trinity is not a doctrine, it is real life.
Everything exits as an image in the mind of God.
Therefore, we must be made in that same image.

This image includes gender.
The concept of gender can be found in all things.
Man, woman, child is the most obvious form of the trinity that exists in the 3rd dimension.
It is everywhere once you know what to look for.


Deuteronomy 6:5
New International Version (NIV)
5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I always heard growing up that the trinity represented 3/3rds each part making 1/3rd... Like how an apple has it's flesh, it's skin, and it's core. All are apple, but all are individual parts as well.
In retrospect it does seem a little polytheistic. =/

' flesh, skin, core ' but doesn't an apple also have seeds?
I have heard the egg too having 3 parts: shell, white and yoke, but the egg also has a 4th membrane part.
None of which is mentioned in Scripture to explain the non-biblical triad as being biblical.
- 1 Corinthians 8:6

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Maybe if you think of it this way it might help.
The Father is the All in All, the Ancient of days.
The Holy Spirit is the Fiery Mother.
The Son is the Souls of mankind.
Father Mother Son
Mind Spirit Soul
The trinity is not a doctrine, it is real life.
Everything exits as an image in the mind of God.
Therefore, we must be made in that same image.
This image includes gender.
The concept of gender can be found in all things.
Man, woman, child is the most obvious form of the trinity that exists in the 3rd dimension.
It is everywhere once you know what to look for.
Deuteronomy 6:5
New International Version (NIV)
5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Besides Deuteronomy 6:4-6 see Jesus' words at Mark 12:28-30; Luke 10:26-28
Also, please notice who Jesus instructed us to worship at John 4:23-24, only his Father and Not him.
Who is the God at Revelation 3:12 ?______________

 

[allfoak]

Who is the God at Revelation 3:12 ?______________

Why ask me?

 

[Corthos]

' flesh, skin, core ' but doesn't an apple also have seeds?
I have heard the egg too having 3 parts: shell, white and yoke, but the egg also has a 4th membrane part.
None of which is mentioned in Scripture to explain the non-biblical triad as being biblical.
- 1 Corinthians 8:6

I think the "seeds" would be the imagination from which it was conceived, IMO.

 

[Huey09]

' flesh, skin, core ' but doesn't an apple also have seeds?
I have heard the egg too having 3 parts: shell, white and yoke, but the egg also has a 4th membrane part.
None of which is mentioned in Scripture to explain the non-biblical triad as being biblical.
- 1 Corinthians 8:6

The only thing I've seen so far used is the scripture, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Matthew 28:19 what could that be interpreted as otherwise?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The only thing I've seen so far used is the scripture, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Matthew 28:19 what could that be interpreted as otherwise?

Those words are also used in the batism instructions in the Didache. However in the meaning of the time " in the name of" meant with the authority of. It did not imply they were a single entity.

Unitarians have never believed in the trinity. They tend to be ambivalent about the "nature" of Jesus, but rely on his teachings.

 

[Huey09]

Those words are also used in the batism instructions in the Didache. However in the meaning of the time " in the name of" meant with the authority of. It did not imply they were a single entity.

Unitarians have never believed in the trinity true, But as a someone I assume is Trinitarian I was wondering how you make peace with the philosophy.

 

[Intojoy]

This isn't a debate I've just decided to mull it over again after having been trying a Unitarian path for about three years. The principal parts I have confusion over are:

1. Why would the Son pray to himself or say he doesn't know the will of the Father if he is on the same level?
2. How does the three in one work without being slightly polytheistic?
3. Did most early Christians movements pre-Nicea Council follow this ideology
4. Can the Trinity be understood figuratively rather than literally?

Again I'm trying to debate I just really want to understand it but have great trouble wrapping my head around the concept.
P.S I haven't been on here in I think years so if there have been great changes help to adjust and its good to be back

The bible's theology is that there is a plurality in the Godhead. And that that plurality is limited to three persons.

The Son is in subjection to the Father but the subjection does not mean inequality.

When God implemented His work of propitiating for sin the Son of God emptied Himself of His omniscience allowing for the Messiah to be born a human being and allowing for normal human growth both physically and mentally which He did. The reason He said no man could take His life from Him is because He is God and He willingly carried out the plan of God to make atonement for Adam's sin.

God can and sometimes does place self imposed limitation upon His divine sovereignty.

 

[Shad]

Just a word of advice. Some of these descriptions of the Trinity are considered heresy depending on your domination. Eggs, water, gas, etc. So keep in mind what is accepted to one is heresy to another.