I can't breathe!

[Shadow Wolf]

Yeah but why play your game of (what if). Your what if tries to move the goal post. It assumes actual evidence was produced. How does tangible evidence shown to a suspect relate to the current situation where nothing was shown. Even when the mere mention of a guy in a red shirt...it in itself seemed disingenuous.

This is why the debate of "if evidence is produced" is irrelevant, because in the case at hand, the state still has not produced evidence that Garner was guilty of a crime. It's not a matter of where guilty or innocence is determined, it's not a matter of hypothetical situations, it's a matter of the reality that the police seemed to have harassed an innocent man. If something really happened, why wasn't there someone going after this red-shirted man? Why have they still not produced evidence Garner committed a crime? It also seems suspicious that the guy who recorded the video was arrested the day after the coroner ruled the death a homocide.

 

[averageJOE]

Yeah but why play your game of (what if). Your what if tries to move the goal post. It assumes actual evidence was produced. How does tangible evidence shown to a suspect relate to the current situation where nothing was shown. Even when the mere mention of a guy in a red shirt...it in itself seemed disingenuous.

It was actually your game I decided to play. You are the one who believes a cop should provide evidence to the person before the arrest. When in reality they don't, I just gave you the benefit of the doubt and just asked even if they did what would happen next.

Don't accuse me of trying to "move the goal posts" by just asking you to explain your ideas in further detail. In your above post you still even make the comment: "...nothing was shown." I'm just simply asking IF something was shown...then what? Any kind of evidence is valid? Who makes that determination, and how?

 

[averageJOE]

This is why the debate of "if evidence is produced" is irrelevant, because in the case at hand, the state still has not produced evidence that Garner was guilty of a crime. It's not a matter of where guilty or innocence is determined, it's not a matter of hypothetical situations, it's a matter of the reality that the police seemed to have harassed an innocent man. If something really happened, why wasn't there someone going after this red-shirted man? Why have they still not produced evidence Garner committed a crime? It also seems suspicious that the guy who recorded the video was arrested the day after the coroner ruled the death a homocide.

Again...still thinking the street is a court room...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

It was actually your game I decided to play. You are the one who believes a cop should provide evidence to the person before the arrest. When in reality they don't, I just gave you the benefit of the doubt and just asked even if they did what would happen next.

I maintain that you have every right to ask them why you're being arrested. That hasn't changed. If you noticed from the video Eric Garner did exactly that. That officer accused him of selling to a guy in a red shirt. He simply asked...what guy in a red shirt...but they didn't even have the mysterious buyer of loose cigarettes in custody.

Don't accuse me of trying to "move the goal posts" by just asking you to explain your ideas in further detail. In your above post you still even make the comment: "...nothing was shown." I'm just simply asking IF something was shown...then what? Any kind of evidence is valid? Who makes that determination, and how?

Your "WHAT IF" would make sense and cease all arguing "if" they had evidence. If the officer said.."We have you on video selling to a guy in a red shirt" then that would be something. If garner put up a fight and was killed in the process...and an investigation had shown the officers conducted video surveillance on suspected sellers of loosies and they filmed Garner selling then it would be open and shut. That's different than the lie the officer told and wound up getting caught in.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Again...still thinking the street is a court room...

I am not thinking the street is a court room. I am expecting the police to be able to do more than "hey, uhh...I saw you do this...you're under arrest." Even in a court room, evidence of a crime has not been produced. No evidence, no crime.
However, there is visual evidence the officer who choked Garner violated NYPD policy when he applied that hold. It doesn't matter if you think it counts as a choke hold or not (and it was), the NYPD policy clearly states that hold is prohibited.
There is also the issue that that officer has two prior complaints against him.
There is also the issue that when so many clung to the state coroner report of Micheal Brown, they clung to defending the police. But with this state coroner report, which ruled the death a homicide, the findings have pretty much just been ignored and the position of those who went with the coroner in Brown's case dismissed it in this one.

 

[Thief]

and the alternative would be to taser the guy.....or just shoot him......

that would have made it all better.....right?