Sometimes words fail, but this I deeply believe: when we devalue life we do so at our own peril.
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I can't breathe!
- Thread starter Jayhawker Soule
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
The recent event in New York?
I was listening to a radio report as someone attempted to explain the difference between the hold used as compared to an alternative method.
I happen to be a black belt.
I know both types of technique (and one more).
That the victim was able to speak his distress eleven times.....indication is then...
His windpipe and vocal chords were not harmed.
It is more likely his precondition of asthma got him in the stress of the event.
I was listening to a radio report as someone attempted to explain the difference between the hold used as compared to an alternative method.
I happen to be a black belt.
I know both types of technique (and one more).
That the victim was able to speak his distress eleven times.....indication is then...
His windpipe and vocal chords were not harmed.
It is more likely his precondition of asthma got him in the stress of the event.
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Tasers can kill too.
Tasers Can Stop The Heart And Kill - Medical News Today
All "non-lethal" weapons & methods have a risk of lethality, so the question becomes which is to be used in what circumstances. Even with a perfect public policy properly implemented, there will be deaths when restraining people. So a death, in & of itself, should not determine guilt of person responsible. Did the person act appropriately? That's the real question, & might or might not result in a trial.
We should note too that all crimes/civil violations are ultimately backed up by threat of governmental violence. No matter how small the infraction, any citizen who doesn't submit to a cop's lawful order will be subject to restraint, which will be as violent as deemed appropriate by the cop. This is a reason I prefer that there be no more laws than absolutely necessary.
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Personally, I'd expand this to "when we devalue anything, we do so at our own peril."
Medical examiner ruled it a homicide. Still not enough to indict.
Makes absolutely no difference. If not for the actions of those officers he would still be alive today. If not for this incident he would have spent Christmas with his wife and children.
^ This is despicable drivel.
You strain to justify excessive force because he said "I can't breath" rather than "I'm having real trouble breathing." It's hard to imagine what might underlie this other than arrogant bigotry.
The protests are growing, y'all
Body cams will not work.
Autopsy results will not work.
We have everything we ask for in terms of accountability for a death that can be avoided. A man was not given due process, and his death is being ruled by the courts as a tragic accident.
The wave of grief in this case is higher than ever before for me. I'm past rage and sadness. I feel numbed now.
Body cams will not work.
Autopsy results will not work.
We have everything we ask for in terms of accountability for a death that can be avoided. A man was not given due process, and his death is being ruled by the courts as a tragic accident.
The wave of grief in this case is higher than ever before for me. I'm past rage and sadness. I feel numbed now.
I'm sorry, but that does not at all follow.
- The protests are growing thanks in great part to the fact that the killing was document on film.
- The call for Grand Jury transparency is growing in great part due to the fact that the killing was document on film.
- The awareness of disparate justice is growing in great part due to the fact that the killing was document on film.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Not really....
"Allegedly".....
Considering he was pleading his case to an officer standing in front of him that appeared to be listening to him...I say they had the upper hand and could have used other techniques to talk and calm him down.....
I agree...but it keeps happening and that's what is disturbing...not only to the black and brown but you can find a plethora of events happening to Americans at the hands of seemingly out of control police officers.
Shucks, they kill too. I worry about those being hit with one of those who might have some sort of congenital heart issue or wearing a pacemaker. I also worry about the loss of motor function, passing out and/or one hitting their head as they fall.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
I agree.
How do you feel about (Police body cameras)?
Personally I don't trust them to be forthcoming with evidence that would make them look bad. I'm sure I'm being paranoid which is why I have my own personal body camera. I have a HD camera built into my watch and press record when I've been pulled over by a police officer.
As the aphorism warns: Don't allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good.
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Jeez.. I just want to focus on religion in RF, but let me throw a hand grenade into this.
First of all, the prosecution went for the jugular as much as the officer by pushing the theme "the officer is guilty of homicide! He is a murderer!" ... so naturally the Grand Jury will think, "ok, I have to judge if the officer is guilty of homicide" ... they didn't think excessive force but homicide. And they said "no".
Now both the Left and Right agree, the relatives of this asthma case will win the civil trial. I didn't hear one "Rightwinger" on the AM radio who didn't say the cops involved used excessive force and are guilty, not just the one cop but several of them. Every "conservative" talk show host I heard (four total - not sure about the others, since I like to often listen to SiriusXM "Spa" elevator and "meditative" music), they all say excessive force was used, copS (plural) guilty as charged. So the civil trial outcome is obvious.
This was not a racial issue. The police are not a bunch of white racists going around murdering blacks, this is a big lie and a false narrative by the far left and race baiters who want a racial divide for political reasons and their own political base and power grab. The last thing the radicals want is peace. They want violence all rhetoric aside.
But we do have a nanny state issue. A big government issue. Nanny feds, nanny states, nanny mayors. Who tell our police to go around and enforce nanny state cigarette controls because the nanny state wants tax "revenues", who want to turn our police into food police, who tell the police to waste all their time giving out traffic tickets so that Big Brother can shake down the dollars and coins from the pockets of average people instead of actually fighting crime, to police people using their fireplace instead of policing home invasions.
The nanny state is profiling those who they think they can get money from, it is all about excessive taxation, fees, fines, "revenues".
I don't have a problem with a guy a bit down on his luck ("illegally avoiding tax collection") selling individual cigarettes from the side of the street. I see no difference between selling individual cigs and a blind guy selling individual pencils from a coffee can. Well - there is one big difference ... the nanny state makes big money on cigarette pack taxes and little money on a sale of a box of pencils. So the nanny state orders the police to go around arresting those who sell individual cigs because they don't like being out of the take on getting their cut (from taxes, fees).
Did you know the idiot liberals who run NYC changed the law in the City that cigarettes sold individually REQUIRE AN ARREST (you cannot just ticket the guy)? Did you know that?
Did you know that a few weeks before this arrest for selling "****" (individual cigs) that the "liberals" who changed the law to require the ARREST for doing so and not just a ticket, that resulted in this tragedy, that just prior to this incident that Mayor De Blasio called for a crackdown on blackmarket sales of cigarettes in NYC?
And why do you suppose the New York libs demanded an arrest for this instead of just writing a ticket?
Taxes.
But selling a "Lucy" (loosey, out of box cig) is a long standing American tradition as Red, White and Blue as apple pie. This is an out of control nanny state Mayor, that is the problem.
Leftwing nanny police states, cities and localities always are on the yellow brick road to dead people. And then, naturally, if you tell one little shop they can't sell ****/cigs but then you have the guy selling cigs in front of the shop, you are going to have the shop guy say "Not fair! Why can't I sell cigs, too! And why these outrageous taxes on them?" .... whoa, the Mayor can't have that, the nanny state wants to tax, tax, tax, so they turn the police into tax enforcers as their top job. More parking tickets. More fare enforcers. More traffic tickets. More going after the guy selling Lucy.
What about those little old Mexican ladies selling tamales from a hot metal box in front of the post office? The guy I see selling corn on the cob with spicy mayo "on the quick" at the corner near the school when kids are going to or leaving classes?
THE LEMONADE STAND - the nanny state is now sicking police on kids selling lemonade.
MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, FEES, FEES, FEES, TAXES, TAXES, TAXES, REVENUES, REVENUES, REVENUES. Top priority. Top enforcement.
If we didn't have a nanny Mayor in New York more concerned about police enforcement of cigarette tax revenues than muggings we wouldn't have a dead obese asthma case right now.
A pack of cgs cost $13 dollars a pack - most all of it taxes. This was about using cops as part of the De Blasio leftwing crackdown on blackmarket cigs that impacts their bottom line which is TAXES, TAXES, TAXES.
The Mayor of NYC killed this guy. Bill De Blasio killed him.
First of all, the prosecution went for the jugular as much as the officer by pushing the theme "the officer is guilty of homicide! He is a murderer!" ... so naturally the Grand Jury will think, "ok, I have to judge if the officer is guilty of homicide" ... they didn't think excessive force but homicide. And they said "no".
Now both the Left and Right agree, the relatives of this asthma case will win the civil trial. I didn't hear one "Rightwinger" on the AM radio who didn't say the cops involved used excessive force and are guilty, not just the one cop but several of them. Every "conservative" talk show host I heard (four total - not sure about the others, since I like to often listen to SiriusXM "Spa" elevator and "meditative" music), they all say excessive force was used, copS (plural) guilty as charged. So the civil trial outcome is obvious.
This was not a racial issue. The police are not a bunch of white racists going around murdering blacks, this is a big lie and a false narrative by the far left and race baiters who want a racial divide for political reasons and their own political base and power grab. The last thing the radicals want is peace. They want violence all rhetoric aside.
But we do have a nanny state issue. A big government issue. Nanny feds, nanny states, nanny mayors. Who tell our police to go around and enforce nanny state cigarette controls because the nanny state wants tax "revenues", who want to turn our police into food police, who tell the police to waste all their time giving out traffic tickets so that Big Brother can shake down the dollars and coins from the pockets of average people instead of actually fighting crime, to police people using their fireplace instead of policing home invasions.
The nanny state is profiling those who they think they can get money from, it is all about excessive taxation, fees, fines, "revenues".
I don't have a problem with a guy a bit down on his luck ("illegally avoiding tax collection") selling individual cigarettes from the side of the street. I see no difference between selling individual cigs and a blind guy selling individual pencils from a coffee can. Well - there is one big difference ... the nanny state makes big money on cigarette pack taxes and little money on a sale of a box of pencils. So the nanny state orders the police to go around arresting those who sell individual cigs because they don't like being out of the take on getting their cut (from taxes, fees).
Did you know the idiot liberals who run NYC changed the law in the City that cigarettes sold individually REQUIRE AN ARREST (you cannot just ticket the guy)? Did you know that?
Did you know that a few weeks before this arrest for selling "****" (individual cigs) that the "liberals" who changed the law to require the ARREST for doing so and not just a ticket, that resulted in this tragedy, that just prior to this incident that Mayor De Blasio called for a crackdown on blackmarket sales of cigarettes in NYC?
And why do you suppose the New York libs demanded an arrest for this instead of just writing a ticket?
Taxes.
But selling a "Lucy" (loosey, out of box cig) is a long standing American tradition as Red, White and Blue as apple pie. This is an out of control nanny state Mayor, that is the problem.
Leftwing nanny police states, cities and localities always are on the yellow brick road to dead people. And then, naturally, if you tell one little shop they can't sell ****/cigs but then you have the guy selling cigs in front of the shop, you are going to have the shop guy say "Not fair! Why can't I sell cigs, too! And why these outrageous taxes on them?" .... whoa, the Mayor can't have that, the nanny state wants to tax, tax, tax, so they turn the police into tax enforcers as their top job. More parking tickets. More fare enforcers. More traffic tickets. More going after the guy selling Lucy.
What about those little old Mexican ladies selling tamales from a hot metal box in front of the post office? The guy I see selling corn on the cob with spicy mayo "on the quick" at the corner near the school when kids are going to or leaving classes?
THE LEMONADE STAND - the nanny state is now sicking police on kids selling lemonade.
MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, FEES, FEES, FEES, TAXES, TAXES, TAXES, REVENUES, REVENUES, REVENUES. Top priority. Top enforcement.
If we didn't have a nanny Mayor in New York more concerned about police enforcement of cigarette tax revenues than muggings we wouldn't have a dead obese asthma case right now.
A pack of cgs cost $13 dollars a pack - most all of it taxes. This was about using cops as part of the De Blasio leftwing crackdown on blackmarket cigs that impacts their bottom line which is TAXES, TAXES, TAXES.
The Mayor of NYC killed this guy. Bill De Blasio killed him.
esmith
Veteran Member
Ask yourself a question. How are you going to subdue a 350 lb person that does not want to be subdued without causing injury to the person or yourself. The answer is there isn't any absolute way that this can be guaranteed. I know this for a fact, because I have been in that situation more than once. For example it took three of use to take into custody a person who couldn't have weighed more that 120 llbs and was not over 65" tall. Did the person get injured? No, but two of us came away with minor injuries.
Is this incident a tragedy? Yes. Could it have been avoided? Yes, if the subject had not became agitated and refused to cooperate with the officer. I hear comments that ask the question why was the person even approached by the police? Could the answer be that business owners had made a compliant about the person and the police responded. I can not state this was the reason for a fact, but it has been put forward.
So, how do we stop the incidents of what is being called racial incidents involving the police? Well the easiest way is to make it a policy that only police officers of the same ethnicity be allowed to interact with that minority. Or since it seems that the race hustlers are saying that the police have an "open season" on black males that the police departments will no longer respond to any calls involving African-Americans nor will they patrol in predominately black neighborhoods. Is this the answer? No. The answer is instead of allowing the race hustlers to continue their economic agenda, especially if they are tax cheats and are given legitimacy by the White House, get the responsible members of the community involved and work with the police vice against them. Yes, this is being done in many cities and areas of the country but that is never shown because it doesn't bleed.
I'm going to go with the grand juries in all cases. If you want someone brought before a criminal court and face a jury for reasons other than justice I say that this only undermines the justice system of this country.
The African-American community needs better leaders than what is currently being held up as leaders in today's world.
Is this incident a tragedy? Yes. Could it have been avoided? Yes, if the subject had not became agitated and refused to cooperate with the officer. I hear comments that ask the question why was the person even approached by the police? Could the answer be that business owners had made a compliant about the person and the police responded. I can not state this was the reason for a fact, but it has been put forward.
So, how do we stop the incidents of what is being called racial incidents involving the police? Well the easiest way is to make it a policy that only police officers of the same ethnicity be allowed to interact with that minority. Or since it seems that the race hustlers are saying that the police have an "open season" on black males that the police departments will no longer respond to any calls involving African-Americans nor will they patrol in predominately black neighborhoods. Is this the answer? No. The answer is instead of allowing the race hustlers to continue their economic agenda, especially if they are tax cheats and are given legitimacy by the White House, get the responsible members of the community involved and work with the police vice against them. Yes, this is being done in many cities and areas of the country but that is never shown because it doesn't bleed.
I'm going to go with the grand juries in all cases. If you want someone brought before a criminal court and face a jury for reasons other than justice I say that this only undermines the justice system of this country.
The African-American community needs better leaders than what is currently being held up as leaders in today's world.
I was a 19 year old CORE activist sitting with others like me when we heard about Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner. I understand.