And that is where you are wrong.
In John 8:44, Jesus gives us more details, which debunks that premise.
So the whole crux of this argument, a position which many people hold, is inaccurate.
Wait what? I just pointed out that in the OT Satan was an agent of God. Because he WAS.
The first works of Satan were errands for Yahweh:
-In
2 Samuel 24, Yahweh sends the "Angel of Yahweh" to inflict a plague against Israel for three days,
killing 70,000 people as punishment
-
1 Chronicles 21:1 repeats this story,
[16] but replaces the "Angel of Yahweh" with an entity referred to as "a satan
-In
1 Samuel 16:14–23 Yahweh sends a "troubling spirit" to torment King
Saul as a mechanism to ingratiate David with the king.
[
Then in Job Yahweh speaks with Satan - "have you considered my servant Job?". Yahweh allows Satan to test Job and serves as prosecutor in Yahwehs trial.
Satan is an agent of Yahweh. He does the dirty work.
During the 2nd Temple Period the Hebrews were influenced by the Persian myths about the devil and God in an eternal war.
So bringing up John (which came way later, after the Hebrews completely assimilated the Greek/Persian myths BACKS UP WHAT I SAID?????????
"During the
Second Temple Period, when Jews were living in the
Achaemenid Empire, Judaism was heavily influenced by
Zoroastrianism, the religion of the Achaemenids.
[26][8][27] Jewish conceptions of Satan were impacted by
Angra Mainyu,"
"The idea of Satan as an opponent of God and a purely evil figure seems to have taken root in Jewish
pseudepigrapha during the Second Temple Period,
[30] particularly in the
apocalypses"
Satan - Wikipedia
" Historically, the unique features of Zoroastrianism, such as its
monotheism,
[5] messianism, belief in
free will and
judgement after death, conception of
heaven,
hell,
angels, and
demons, among other concepts, may have influenced other religious and philosophical systems, including the
Abrahamic religions "
There is no argument. In the early OT Satan was working with God. After they were occupied by the Persians and Greeks the religion adapted many of the myths of those cultures. The Christian Satan is modeled after Angra Mainyu. Not the agent of God Satan in the OT.
The text in the title doesn’t support that idea, either. It doesn’t say “I created evil.” As if God was the source of its beginning.
It is not written in past tense.
Really, would any intelligent person hire an enemy, to work against Him?
That is an unreasonable assumption.
Yet in the OT Yahweh asks Satan his thoughts on Job. He sends him on errands of evil and uses him to serve as prosecutor. Then, they are occupied by the Persians, and a few centuries later Satan and God at enemies, at eternal war, just like the Persian version?
The rest of your post, #699, though, was interesting. And so was #700.
Taken together, they were almost “TL: dr”, but I did.
That post also explains clearly that Satan was originally an agent of God and later became the Persian version. Bringing up a passage in John further demonstrates this is true. The theology changed through religious syncretism. Of course John will reflect the new theology?
To me, God’s omniscient quality, does not include individuals, as He respects each one’s FreeWill and dignifies their right to privacy.
But He can know, if He chooses, what events will happen and when … one way is that He could maneuver them … but He doesn’t know the individuals who will accomplish those events. He can see what’s in a person’s heart, but that doesn’t mean He knows they’ll follow it. The Ninevites in Jonah are a great example of this.
Jonah is a great example of a complete fictional metaphor even more than most fiction like LOTR. It even has a 3 days and nights motif later used in the resurrection tale. Fish swallowing people for 3 days, a fast growing plant and giant worm, a lost at sea narrative? These stories are meant to teach lessons not take literal.
According to Scripture, another time God read the heart but obviously didn’t know, was the account of Cain. Jehovah knew which path Cain was heading toward… that of sin… but still He tried to reason with Cain, to get him to stop. Jehovah wouldn’t have done that, if Cain were predestined.
There are other situations in Scripture dealing with individuals, where Jehovah did not know.
There have been 3 exceptions to this: Jeremiah, Jesus His Son (of course), and Cyrus the Great. But all 3 carried out His purposes, i.e., “did good deeds.”
Take care.
Because scripture is a collection of stories written by people many views are opposed by opposite views. So while you can find instances where Yahweh cannot see something, in other places he can see everything:
God ... knoweth all things.
1 John 3:20
No thought can be withholden from thee.
Job 42:2
For he knoweth the secrets of the heart.
Psalm 44:21
Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men.
Acts 1:24
Whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psalm 139:7-8
Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth?
Jeremiah 23:24
The eyes of the Lord are in every place.
Proverbs 15:3
For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.
Jeremiah 16:17
Modern theologians like Aquinas have not put restrictions on God. Even a simple subject seems to have Christians divided. This is because it's a book written by humans.
