'I am unhappy and i must be happy'

[TSTS]

'I am unhappy and I must be happy'. In that very demand that I must be happy, is unhappiness. When one makes an effort to be happy, in that very effort is its opposite, unhappiness.

Everything affirmed contains its own opposite, and effort to overcome strengthens that against which it strives. When you demand an experience of truth or reality, that very demand is born out of your discontent with what-is (facts) and therefore the demand creates the opposite. And in the opposite there is what has been, from which you are running away.. So one must be free from this incessant demand, otherwise there is no end to the conflict between opposites.

Happiness through something must invariably beget conflict, for then the means is vastly more significant and important than happiness itself. For example, If I get happiness through the beauty of that chair, then the chair becomes all important to me and I must take care of it, polish it, guard it against others etc.. In this struggle, the happiness which I once felt in the beauty of the chair is utterly forgotten, lost, and I am left with the chair. In itself, the chair has little value; but I have given it an extraordinary value, for it is the means of my happiness.. When the means of happiness is a living person, then the conflict and confusion, the antagonism and pain are far greater. If relationship is based on mere usage, is there any relationship, except the most superficial, between the user and the used? Aren't you really self-isolated?

As nothing can live in isolation, the attempts of the human to isolate itself lead to its own frustration and misery. To escape from this sense of incompleteness, we seek completeness in ideas, in people, in ideals, in things; and so we are back again where we started, in the search for substitutes.

This search is the beginnings to what was being talked about in Deterioration of the human mind

 

[The Hammer]

Happy Birthday

 

[TSTS]

Thank you kindly.

 

[SigurdReginson]

this is a really huge concept for me to wrap my brain around...

From what I gather, what you are saying is that in romanticizing things, ideas, and people, we inflate their actual importance to something far greater than what they are. I would agree... It gives us a skewed idea of reality. Sooner or later we become disappointed when bald faced reality comes into conflict with our ideas of reality. Some people double down into full on delusion, and some reassess the situation and adjust accordingly.

One thing you'll hear from me often is that a healthy epistemological toolset is one of the most important things a person can develop.

 

[Spirit of Light]

'I am unhappy and I must be happy'. In that very demand that I must be happy, is unhappiness. When one makes an effort to be happy, in that very effort is its opposite, unhappiness.

Everything affirmed contains its own opposite, and effort to overcome strengthens that against which it strives. When you demand an experience of truth or reality, that very demand is born out of your discontent with what-is (facts) and therefore the demand creates the opposite. And in the opposite there is what has been, from which you are running away.. So one must be free from this incessant demand, otherwise there is no end to the conflict between opposites.

Happiness through something must invariably beget conflict, for then the means is vastly more significant and important than happiness itself. For example, If I get happiness through the beauty of that chair, then the chair becomes all important to me and I must take care of it, polish it, guard it against others etc.. In this struggle, the happiness which I once felt in the beauty of the chair is utterly forgotten, lost, and I am left with the chair. In itself, the chair has little value; but I have given it an extraordinary value, for it is the means of my happiness.. When the means of happiness is a living person, then the conflict and confusion, the antagonism and pain are far greater. If relationship is based on mere usage, is there any relationship, except the most superficial, between the user and the used? Aren't you really self-isolated?

As nothing can live in isolation, the attempts of the human to isolate itself lead to its own frustration and misery. To escape from this sense of incompleteness, we seek completeness in ideas, in people, in ideals, in things; and so we are back again where we started, in the search for substitutes.

This search is the beginnings to what was being talked about in Deterioration of the human mind

You say in the OP that isolation lead to misary, i live alone very happy about it, today i had to go to the city and it felt horrible, the noise, the people stressing around, the smell of cars and so on.
My mood only vent back to calm and relaxed when i got home.
Spirirually being alone is not misary to everyone

 

[Vinayaka]

I view it as you're not happy, nor unhappy. I view it as awareness moving through the cities of Happy, or Unhappy, and one of the goals of life is to learn how to control that awareness.

 

[WalterTrull]

Man, now I know. Whoda thunk it.

 

[TSTS]

@Vinayaka

The "I" was used as a representative statement, please read it as part of "we".

I view it as awareness moving through the cities of Happy, or Unhappy, and one of the goals of life is to learn how to control that awareness

Theories are an escape from the facts of what-is. Most importantly, they don't work.

@Conscious thoughts

You say in the OP that isolation lead to misary, i live alone very happy about it, today i had to go to the city and it felt horrible, the noise, the people stressing around, the smell of cars and so on.
My mood only vent back to calm and relaxed when i got home.
Spirirually being alone is not misary to everyone

I hope you will forgive me for saying, you're running into the same problems in comprehension that was witnessed in our discussion at If you put your religious book away for a moment. when we were discussing about conformity. I will say to you what i had said then, please read the post again if you wish and see if you can understated them. They talk about relatable and factual things. If there is a comprehension issue i can help only if i find it to be genuine. I won't waste energy and time to change anyone beliefs as i don't care what anyone believes in. I welcome them to their beliefs. These posts require you to come to it with a light and sharp mind that isn't weighed down by prejudices, bias, and conformity. Otherwise there is no point coming to the OP's, there is always going to be comprehension issues. I am saying all this as a disclaimer and for future reference.

Out of consideration i will say briefly, self-isolation doesn't mean physically isolated. It's the psychological state of being separate from the environment. Where everything is seen as an object and a means for one's gratification. Self- isolation also means to live a life within your thoughts, concepts, ideas, and acquired ideological frameworks....so on and so forth.

@SigurdReginson

From what I gather, what you are saying is that in romanticizing things, ideas, and people, we inflate their actual importance to something far greater than what they are. I would agree... It gives us a skewed idea of reality. Sooner or later we become disappointed when bald faced reality comes into conflict with our ideas of reality. Some people double down into full on delusion, and some reassess the situation and adjust accordingly.

Sorry , that's a simplistic and your own personal interpretation of what i was saying. But if that's what you got from the OP, that's what it is for you....

 

[SigurdReginson]

Sorry , that's a simplistic and your own personal interpretation of what i was saying. But if that's what you got from the OP, that's what it is for you....

Well I think the whole point of discussion is to discuss. Tell me where my oversimplified observations fall short so I can engage you where you are at more accurately.

 

[Spirit of Light]

@Vinayaka

The "I" was used as a representative statement, please read it as part of "we".

Theories are an escape from the facts of what-is. Most importantly, they don't work.

@Conscious thoughts



I hope you will forgive me for saying, you're running into the same problems in comprehension that was witnessed in our discussion at If you put your religious book away for a moment. when we were discussing about conformity. I will say to you what i had said then, please read the post again if you wish and see if you can understated them. They talk about relatable and factual things. If there is a comprehension issue i can help only if i find it to be genuine. I won't waste energy and time to change anyone beliefs as i don't care what anyone believes in. I welcome them to their beliefs. These posts require you to come to it with a light and sharp mind that isn't weighed down by prejudices, bias, and conformity. Otherwise there is no point coming to the OP's, there is always going to be comprehension issues. I am saying all this as a disclaimer and for future reference.

Out of consideration i will say briefly, self-isolation doesn't mean physically isolated. It's the psychological state of being separate from the environment. Where everything is seen as an object and a means for one's gratification. Self- isolation also means to live a life within your thoughts, concepts, ideas, and acquired ideological frameworks....so on and so forth.

@SigurdReginson


Sorry , that's a simplistic and your own personal interpretation of what i was saying. But if that's what you got from the OP, that's what it is for you....

I will opt out of the discussion since i live purly after spiritual gaining and not out of what you call factual things

 

[Vinayaka]

I will opt out of the discussion since i live purly after spiritual gaining and not out of what you call factual things

Yeah, I'm out as well. I'm just too stupid.

 

[TSTS]

Well I think the whole point of discussion is to discuss. Tell me where my oversimplified observations fall short so I can engage you where you are at more accurately.

I think a discussion has more to it than simply to discuss. What i prefer to engage in is a dialogue, which isn't the same as "just discuss".

Since English is your first language obviously you know what you posted at #4 is your interpretation. And i said you are welcome to it if that's what you got from it. You are asking me to show you where you over simplified which will make me repeat the OP. My response is to ask you to read the OP again. In the alternative if there is something you are having problems in understanding then you may quote the part and ask a question or offer a rebuttal, if you wish.

 

[TSTS]

I will opt out of the discussion since i live purly after spiritual gaining and not out of what you call factual things

Right sir. I understand. You are pursuing your quest for heaven, your enclosed garden of eternity. Nothing wrong with that. You are in good company. However, I hope at some point you will realize this is the quintessential symptom of self-isolation. You have divided the spiritual from the mundane. The OP is hinting at this. I will leave you with a quote that you may appreciate, since it's from the tradition you follow:

What are "I" and "You"?
Just lattices
In the niches of a lamp
Through which the One Light radiates.

"I" and "You" are the veil
Between heaven and earth;
Lift this veil and you will see
How all sects and religions are one.

Lift this veil and you will ask---
When "I" and "You" do not exist
What is mosque?
What is synagogue?
What is fire temple?
Mahmud Shabistari

 

[SigurdReginson]

I think a discussion has more to it than simply to discuss. What i prefer to engage in is a dialogue, which isn't the same as "just discuss".

Since English is your first language obviously you know what you posted at #4 is your interpretation. And i said you are welcome to it if that's what you got from it. You are asking me to show you where you over simplified which will make me repeat myself. My response is to ask you to read the OP again. In the alternative if there is something you are having problems in understanding then you may quote the part and ask a question or offer a rebuttal, if you wish.

You know what? I'm good. No thank you.

 

[TSTS]

Thank you for joining in.

 

[TSTS]

@Conscious thoughts

I may have been a bit short earlier today. Perhaps it was an aftereffect from the exchange with that poster on my other thread from yesterday. I apologize my friend.

 

[Spirit of Light]

@Conscious thoughts

I may have been a bit short earlier today. Perhaps it was an aftereffect from the exchange with that poster on my other thread from yesterday. I apologize my friend.

No need to appologizing Since you last wrote the answer to me, i have had a very good sleep, and did not think of your reply, so no hard feelings from my side toward you

I think we see life from very different Point of view, but that is a reason RF is a good place to discuss and share thoughts