I abandoned jesus, nomore trinity, and here's how it happened

[Xchristian]

hello all,

I am ever so glad to have found this forum, I am the son of an Egyptian coptic priest, having been born in a family which is extremely christian, I have been learning about religion more than I learnt about mathematics, which is a shame really, but it happened.

the Egyptian coptic church is most concerned with miracles, everything is miracles, exorcism, people flying, saints appearning on top of churches .. load of that ...

I went to some country in Europe, only the admins call tell where that is at the moment, and I hope they keep it a secret for my safety's sake.

I have been trying to stay in the bosom of jesus of nazareth all my life, till I sat watching a debate between distinguished professor Bart Ehrman and a pastor called Craig Evans, it's on youtube, you can find it there.

the first time around I just watched a bit of Ehrman, my nerves couldn't stand watching the guy turning my beloved jesus into shreds, and the whole of Evans' rebuttal and every word he said.

It was too much on my nerves, oh Jesus, please do something ...

then I watched another of a bloke called Licona against Bart Ehrman, same again, no Ehrman, just Licona.

then I went to Egypt and visited a monastery in the desert, and sat with a learnt monk, I showed him the film on my laptop, he couldn't bear hearing even the bits Mr Ehrman had to say, and said this is evil, this is satan, this is blasphemy, and threatened to tell my dad, so I left the monastery, told myself leave that out.

As I came back here, I disconnected my internet, just in case Mr Ehrman jumps into my browser, ... that's safer.

I had a couple of agnostic friends, I told them I am moving to another city.

Having buried my head in the sand for 3 months now, I kept looking in the newspapers, no news about lightening striking North Carolina and hitting Mr Ehrman.
No news about Mr Ehrman suffering lebrosy or any uncurable diseases.

Actually it's the other way around, it's the pope of Alexandria that contracted Herbes and died a very painful death.

I thought that's it, I will make prayers myself so we get rid of this person, that didn't work either.

so I opened the book and restored internet, checked what Mr Ehrman had to say, and tried to reconcile it, and had a lot of hope from a contributer on this forum, but still what Mr Ehrman says is exactly spot on.

I actually now can come up with new theories, I can prove that Satan is god from the new testament, I can prove St Judas the Escariot is god, it's so distorted you can make it say whatever you want just twist a few words here and there.

So, I am decided now, NO MORE JESUS, no more lies, let's face it, Mr Ehrman destroyed christianity beyond repair.

 

[9Westy9]

wow. Interesting experiences you've had. I'm not sure if Ehrman has completely destroyed Christianity but he's one of those people who makes a good case against it. welcome to the forum

 

[4consideration]

Hello and welcome!

 

[Xchristian]

thank you very much, I would love to share all my other experiences.
I have been a non-errantist all my life, believing even that the bible was inspired as a whole by jesus and that it was assigned for each writer to write his own version according to what he was inspired.

add to that all the other so called miracles that you would really be impressed with, Mary came and showed up just on top of a church in Cairo, I saw the light myself, but now alas ... it was all because I just believed without understanding.

I will share what I have learnt too with the rest in coming contributions.

 

[Badran]

Welcome to RF, and thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[Revoltingest]

Greetings!

 

[Xchristian]

thanks for the welcome guys, it really is very friendly here, I am ever so glad.

 

[Super Universe]

hello all,

I am ever so glad to have found this forum, I am the son of an Egyptian coptic priest, having been born in a family which is extremely christian, I have been learning about religion more than I learnt about mathematics, which is a shame really, but it happened.

the Egyptian coptic church is most concerned with miracles, everything is miracles, exorcism, people flying, saints appearning on top of churches .. load of that ...

I went to some country in Europe, only the admins call tell where that is at the moment, and I hope they keep it a secret for my safety's sake.

I have been trying to stay in the bosom of jesus of nazareth all my life, till I sat watching a debate between distinguished professor Bart Ehrman and a pastor called Craig Evans, it's on youtube, you can find it there.

the first time around I just watched a bit of Ehrman, my nerves couldn't stand watching the guy turning my beloved jesus into shreds, and the whole of Evans' rebuttal and every word he said.

It was too much on my nerves, oh Jesus, please do something ...

then I watched another of a bloke called Licona against Bart Ehrman, same again, no Ehrman, just Licona.

then I went to Egypt and visited a monastery in the desert, and sat with a learnt monk, I showed him the film on my laptop, he couldn't bear hearing even the bits Mr Ehrman had to say, and said this is evil, this is satan, this is blasphemy, and threatened to tell my dad, so I left the monastery, told myself leave that out.

As I came back here, I disconnected my internet, just in case Mr Ehrman jumps into my browser, ... that's safer.

I had a couple of agnostic friends, I told them I am moving to another city.

Having buried my head in the sand for 3 months now, I kept looking in the newspapers, no news about lightening striking North Carolina and hitting Mr Ehrman.
No news about Mr Ehrman suffering lebrosy or any uncurable diseases.

Actually it's the other way around, it's the pope of Alexandria that contracted Herbes and died a very painful death.

I thought that's it, I will make prayers myself so we get rid of this person, that didn't work either.

so I opened the book and restored internet, checked what Mr Ehrman had to say, and tried to reconcile it, and had a lot of hope from a contributer on this forum, but still what Mr Ehrman says is exactly spot on.

I actually now can come up with new theories, I can prove that Satan is god from the new testament, I can prove St Judas the Escariot is god, it's so distorted you can make it say whatever you want just twist a few words here and there.

So, I am decided now, NO MORE JESUS, no more lies, let's face it, Mr Ehrman destroyed christianity beyond repair.

You were looking for an excuse and you found it. Mr. Ehrman did not destroy Christianity, it still has 1 billion followers. One tree lost is sad but there are countless more that will continue to grow.

Is Coptic Christianity all about miracles, exorcisim, people flying, and saints appearing on top of churches? That's it, nothing more than just those things? I don't believe Jesus said very much about those things, maybe a few words but mostly I think He talked about His Father. And He also said something about forgiving others. Aren't those things a bit more important than saints on top of churches?

 

[waitasec]

welcome....you are in for an exciting ride....!!!

 

[Pastek]

I have been trying to stay in the bosom of jesus of nazareth all my life, till I sat watching a debate between distinguished professor Bart Ehrman and a pastor called Craig Evans, it's on youtube, you can find it there.

I remember that i saw his video some years ago. But he was more talking about who writted the Bible.

You could have still belived in Jesus and been in another branch of christianity.
There's many christians who don't believe in trinity.

Actually it's the other way around, it's the pope of Alexandria that contracted Herbes and died a very painful death.

I'm sorry i don't get what you wanted to say.
Who were talking about Shenouda III ?


And welcome to you

 

[Xchristian]

Dear Super Universe, thanks for the reply

You were looking for an excuse and you found it. Mr. Ehrman did not destroy Christianity, it still has 1 billion followers. One tree lost is sad but there are countless more that will continue to grow.

That's true in a way, but I wasn't looking for it, I honestly wasn't. please take my word for it.

Is Coptic Christianity all about miracles, exorcisim, people flying, and saints appearing on top of churches? That's it, nothing more than just those things? I don't believe Jesus said very much about those things, maybe a few words but mostly I think He talked about His Father. And He also said something about forgiving others. Aren't those things a bit more important than saints on top of churches?

To be very honest, I said elsewhere and still say it, I was a literalist.
I believed in this 'as a result of' the exorcism, miracles, etc
That was THE only way I would blind my eye to everything else
It was a shield, a blinder, a protective film against brain-work.

Perhaps my worst take was that I was a literalist and I believed the jesus they made up. I had my own super giant bible of my own making, pretty much like the bible that the lady I answered in this forum has.

So for example,

jesus was cucified before eating the passover meal as John said.
but he was crucified again after eating the passover meal as in Mark et all
there's noway to digest it otherwise, so I numbed my brain out and accepted both.

I loved my enemies like jesus told me to, but then that's because the all loving jesus promised they would go to lake of fire as in RV19:21.

I loved jesus so much that I loved my enemies so much, Mt5:43 and hated my mother, father, friends, including myself I despised the whole lot Lk14:26, but I became unsociable, and still put up with it.

jesus said so much about himself, and I believe anyone of us could say the same, I and the Father are one, before Abraham was I am, ... etc allegations that need corroporation.

the corroporation was Mary popping up on top of the church, women of other faiths come on crutches into the church and go out walking (even though I saw a crucifix tattoo on their right arm after they took off there veil), it was the miracles that blinded me, now the covers have gone, ... sorry my beloved jesus you go too.

It's quite straightforward.

------------------------------------------------------------------------===

to answer Pastek (save a bit of server space) in the same contrib.

Any Egyptian christian is of the same opinion as myself .. it's the miracles that keep them going.
The west has forbidden these books till they burned Tyndall on the stake and then it came out, the tree has been chopped by the axe of knowledge and people are leaving our beloved jesus faster than you can eat a grape.

so, sorry, no other faith for me at the moment as long as it's to do with these books.
Not the son of a virgin who walked on water and woke up Eleazer from sleep.

faith on miracles? --> no thanks. had enough of those and they don't work.

to sum it up for dear 'Super Universe'
Let me give you a little example please:
give me one miracle jesus did that's 'useful' for this day and age.

1- resurrected a man from the death, perfect ... HE DIED AGAIN!
what's the point him being raised from death? .. just to suffer a bit more?

2- fed 5000, and the food has become human faeces and gone down the drains of Israel.

3- made wine out of water ... I prefer they stayed sober to be honest.

4- healed the leber .. and then the sick person simply died, wonderful!

5- saved his people ... his generation from birth to 2 years old were massacred just so he can grow up!!! ... and after death, Israel was wiped out from earth by the Romans.

you name it, it's useless ... provided it actually happened!!! ..
Actually I have no faith in any kind of miracle in the books, it might have been made up.

The poor Egyptian church just tried to keep the tradition going by making up their own miracles, and there are those who believe it, in America I think they talk in tongues, catholics ordain saints provided they make miracles, ...
no miracles = no jesus.
I now want to live as a normal person, no more miracles please, had enough.

thank all

 

[Super Universe]

Dear Super Universe, thanks for the reply



That's true in a way, but I wasn't looking for it, I honestly wasn't. please take my word for it.



To be very honest, I said elsewhere and still say it, I was a literalist.
I believed in this 'as a result of' the exorcism, miracles, etc
That was THE only way I would blind my eye to everything else
It was a shield, a blinder, a protective film against brain-work.

Perhaps my worst take was that I was a literalist and I believed the jesus they made up. I had my own super giant bible of my own making, pretty much like the bible that the lady I answered in this forum has.

So for example,

jesus was cucified before eating the passover meal as John said.
but he was crucified again after eating the passover meal as in Mark et all
there's noway to digest it otherwise, so I numbed my brain out and accepted both.

I loved my enemies like jesus told me to, but then that's because the all loving jesus promised they would go to lake of fire as in RV19:21.

I loved jesus so much that I loved my enemies so much, Mt5:43 and hated my mother, father, friends, including myself I despised the whole lot Lk14:26, but I became unsociable, and still put up with it.

jesus said so much about himself, and I believe anyone of us could say the same, I and the Father are one, before Abraham was I am, ... etc allegations that need corroporation.

the corroporation was Mary popping up on top of the church, women of other faiths come on crutches into the church and go out walking (even though I saw a crucifix tattoo on their right arm after they took off there veil), it was the miracles that blinded me, now the covers have gone, ... sorry my beloved jesus you go too.

It's quite straightforward.

------------------------------------------------------------------------===

to answer Pastek (save a bit of server space) in the same contrib.

Any Egyptian christian is of the same opinion as myself .. it's the miracles that keep them going.
The west has forbidden these books till they burned Tyndall on the stake and then it came out, the tree has been chopped by the axe of knowledge and people are leaving our beloved jesus faster than you can eat a grape.

so, sorry, no other faith for me at the moment as long as it's to do with these books.
Not the son of a virgin who walked on water and woke up Eleazer from sleep.

faith on miracles? --> no thanks. had enough of those and they don't work.

to sum it up for dear 'Super Universe'
Let me give you a little example please:
give me one miracle jesus did that's 'useful' for this day and age.

1- resurrected a man from the death, perfect ... HE DIED AGAIN!
what's the point him being raised from death? .. just to suffer a bit more?

2- fed 5000, and the food has become human faeces and gone down the drains of Israel.

3- made wine out of water ... I prefer they stayed sober to be honest.

4- healed the leber .. and then the sick person simply died, wonderful!

5- saved his people ... his generation from birth to 2 years old were massacred just so he can grow up!!! ... and after death, Israel was wiped out from earth by the Romans.

you name it, it's useless ... provided it actually happened!!! ..
Actually I have no faith in any kind of miracle in the books, it might have been made up.

The poor Egyptian church just tried to keep the tradition going by making up their own miracles, and there are those who believe it, in America I think they talk in tongues, catholics ordain saints provided they make miracles, ...
no miracles = no jesus.
I now want to live as a normal person, no more miracles please, had enough.

thank all

You weren't looking for it? Really? And one video suddenly caused you to lose faith completely? You can try to sell that all you want but I'm not buying.

As for the bible, you have to remember that God is incredibly complex. He is the most complex thing in the universe. Humanity won't have an accurate idea of what God really is for another thousand years or so. The humans who wrote the Old Testament had not even invented the wheel yet. The humans who wrote the books of the New Testament were afraid of comets and did not know the real cause of disease, weather, earthquakes, the changing seasons, eclipses, birth defects and more. God is an evolving concept.

Give you one miracle Jesus did that is useful for this day and age? Who cares about the miracles. Some think those things prove Jesus was the Son of God or even God Himself, to me they are insignificant. What is exceptional is the idea of forgiveness. It is more than any miracle. Who ever thought of the idea of forgiving even your enemies?

If you want to blame Jesus for human faults then that is your choice.

 

[Xchristian]

You weren't looking for it? Really? And one video suddenly caused you to lose faith completely? You can try to sell that all you want but I'm not buying.

to be very honest, you are both right and wrong.

right in that it was not just one video ...
I hope you read the bit about having numbed my brains for a long time, the video in which Dr Evans the evangelist admits that the famous ego emi statements are possibly not typical of jesus (or something to that effect but not very far, that was the straw that broke the mule's back.
Wrong when you assumed it was only this video, I am doing a PhD in antiquities of the new testament now, 3 years of studying have added plenty, but then again, I had the innoculation against thinking, once the brains started working, jesus fell.

As for the bible, you have to remember that God is incredibly complex. He is the most complex thing in the universe. Humanity won't have an accurate idea of what God really is for another thousand years or so.

His mistake, He gave me a mind that's not big enough to understand, why put me in hellfire then if I am not equipped to understand Him?

The humans who wrote the Old Testament had not even invented the wheel yet. The humans who wrote the books of the New Testament were afraid of comets and did not know the real cause of disease, weather, earthquakes, the changing seasons, eclipses, birth defects and more. God is an evolving concept.

why didn't He use people who were more evolved (Thanks Dr Hawkins!)

Give you one miracle Jesus did that is useful for this day and age? Who cares about the miracles.

remove that and you will end up with an empty book, oh sorry, you will find the genealogy of 14-14-14 or is it 14-13-14 or is it 14-14-13 ... like a football game plan!

Some think those things prove Jesus was the Son of God or even God Himself, to me they are insignificant. What is exceptional is the idea of forgiveness. It is more than any miracle. Who ever thought of the idea of forgiving even your enemies?

The creator that couldn't forgive Adam without making the whole universe suffer endlessly through no fault of their own, the original sin, Jews to suffer forever, Hitler, Crusades, Enquisition, .... suffering ... how forgiving!

If you want to blame Jesus for human faults then that is your choice.

I thought he was part of the company that created all this? wasn't he?

 

[waitasec]

You weren't looking for it? Really? And one video suddenly caused you to lose faith completely? You can try to sell that all you want but I'm not buying.

do i detect suspicions of intent?
come on... this is his journey....he's allowed to go on one, isn't he?

 

[Xchristian]

Give you one miracle Jesus did that is useful for this day and age? Who cares about the miracles. .

I do employ plenty of statistics for my PhD now, would you like to put 5 euro on a statistic that says more than 50% of the new testament is miracles (only)
Actually, Dr Ehrman says there was a source called the signs source underlying the gospel of john.
Actually, John said:
[Jn 21:25][ 25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that should be written.]

It seems he was fed up with making up miracles, he said I have zillion more, but I have not got enough ink or server-space to tell you about them!

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

So, I am decided now, NO MORE JESUS, no more lies, let's face it, Mr Ehrman destroyed christianity beyond repair.

All Ehrman has done is attempt to find the history behind Christianity which even he admits is full of holes and blanks that span decades and centuries. I enjoy his writings because they offer some insights into the past but I don't look to him for spiritual guidance.

As someone else has mentioned, there are lots of Christians that don't believe in the Trinity as a Godhead, I'm one of them, a Unitarian Christian.

Just because Ehrman punched a few holes in what you thought you knew about Christianity it doesn't mean you have to give up on it completely. Take some time to explore other forms of Christianity and see how diverse it really is. It could be that you will find a form that fits you. If not, broaden your search to other religions. You may never find the perfect one, but the journey will be enlightening.

 

[Xchristian]

All Ehrman has done is attempt to find the history behind Christianity which even he admits is full of holes and blanks that span decades and centuries. I enjoy his writings because they offer some insights into the past but I don't look to him for spiritual guidance.

As someone else has mentioned, there are lots of Christians that don't believe in the Trinity as a Godhead, I'm one of them, a Unitarian Christian.

Just because Ehrman punched a few holes in what you thought you knew about Christianity it doesn't mean you have to give up on it completely. Take some time to explore other forms of Christianity and see how diverse it really is. It could be that you will find a form that fits you. If not, broaden your search to other religions. You may never find the perfect one, but the journey will be enlightening.

I promise you, I will.
I actually, the books have no trinity in them, except for pro'lly just one reference in 1john5:7, but that's not from the book itself.
in Misquoting Jesus I remember professor Ehrman mentioning this or in Orthodox corruption of the scriptures. can't remember exactly.

 

[waitasec]

xchristian,
i think i see what you mean by "no more jesus, no more lies"

correct me if i am wrong...no more of the jesus you thought you knew of...

am i off?

 

[Super Universe]

to be very honest, you are both right and wrong.

right in that it was not just one video ...
I hope you read the bit about having numbed my brains for a long time, the video in which Dr Evans the evangelist admits that the famous ego emi statements are possibly not typical of jesus (or something to that effect but not very far, that was the straw that broke the mule's back.
Wrong when you assumed it was only this video, I am doing a PhD in antiquities of the new testament now, 3 years of studying have added plenty, but then again, I had the innoculation against thinking, once the brains started working, jesus fell.



His mistake, He gave me a mind that's not big enough to understand, why put me in hellfire then if I am not equipped to understand Him?



why didn't He use people who were more evolved (Thanks Dr Hawkins!)



remove that and you will end up with an empty book, oh sorry, you will find the genealogy of 14-14-14 or is it 14-13-14 or is it 14-14-13 ... like a football game plan!



The creator that couldn't forgive Adam without making the whole universe suffer endlessly through no fault of their own, the original sin, Jews to suffer forever, Hitler, Crusades, Enquisition, .... suffering ... how forgiving!



I thought he was part of the company that created all this? wasn't he?

I never assumed the video was the only reason you abandoned Jesus. In fact I've argued the opposite the entire time.

God's mistake was giving you a mind that does not understand everything? Are you against children? Do you dislike them because they don't know how things work?

When did God put you in hellfire?

Why didn't God use people who were more evolved? What humans were more evolved back then? You really don't like the process of evolution, the process of learning, of having to work and earn what you have and what you know. You just want to be given everything. Seems rather selfish and lazy, don't you think?

Remove the miracles and you end up with an empty (bible)? Uhh, not sure which version you've been reading but the miracles are a small part of it.

The Creator couldn't forgive Adam? And where is Adam now, at this moment? Do you know? Nope, you don't. I could tell you but that would be too easy for you, you're going to have to do the work yourself. Instead of trying to denouce two thousand year old God theory why don't you bring yourself up to date with some new ideas. But before you can do that you have to stop blaming Jesus for what humans have taught you and you chose to accept as truth.

Jesus is part of the "company" who created all this? Yes, He is. Your problem seems to be with understanding why things are the way they are. Again, I could tell you but right now you need to get your anger out before you can begin to move on and catch up to the year 2012.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Anyone patiently waiting for the "you just had a bad childhood" argument? Anyone?

:angel2: