Humans and Chimp, its True...

[Gabethewiking]

I want a chance to explain the basic foundation of Evolution to Creationists. I always held that the reason they (you) are generally denying it, is lack of basic understanding and not because they want to deny facts. Further down I included a crude Human and Chimp graphical representation.

As you can see, Humans did not "Evolve From" Chimpanzees, but have a common Ancestor. This tree later branched of to various others and so forth.

During one period, our Ancestor was "Not-Human" and then became "Human". This is mere labels we use to define things and does not work between one, two or even thousands of generations, but millions. One time the change had become so much that we no longer defined it as "None-Human" but as "Human".

It is also important to point out to Creationist that Humans are not the end nor are we Superior to other species. We are merely Human, just as Chimpanzees are Chimps, they are a different branch going a different way because of Natural Selection, Humans are superior to being humans, whiles Chimpanzees are superior to being Chimpanzees and so on.


Please tell me what it is you do not understand with this basic fact, and what you need to have explained to accept this fact as I know plenty on this forum would gladly assist, and I will do my best as well. I apologize for the crude and poor representation, I made it in a haste, and it is a mere Graphical Explanation to make it as simple as possible, I used a similar, but better, one when I went through this with my dear Wife.

 

[Mr Cheese]

well its clear humasn arent chimps...

have you seen a chimps posterior?

and how they drink tea?

 

[Gabethewiking]

I thought Swedes drank Coffee

And I am hoping to engage and help some Creationist in learning and understanding here, why such a short pointless post... Your Included Photo is really annoying and fills up the post, you wouldn't mind changing it to a smaller one? I suspect others have asked, for respect for others?

 

[JMorris]

well its clear humasn arent chimps...

sometimes we are

have you seen a chimps posterior?

a couple of times on Animal Planet. why? do you keep chimp butt pics handy?

and how they drink tea?

with their mouths:drool:

 

[JMorris]

I thought Swedes drank Coffee

And I am hoping to engage and help some Creationist in learning and understanding here, why such a short pointless post... Your Included Photo is really annoying and fills up the post, you wouldn't mind changing it to a smaller one? I suspect others have asked, for respect for others?

thats not true at all, ive asked him to make it bigger. Mr. Cheese, please find a bigger picture. one that takes up an entire page please, out of respect for me.

 

[Man of Faith]

Nothwithstanding that there is no evidence for this and it is all made up out of man's imagination, it is not even belieavable. Let me put to bed this notion that people don't believe in evolution because they are ignorant. The more I learn about evolution the more I see it's weaknesses, not its strenghts. Evolution is a dying theory, it can no longer be propped up through intimidation and the courts. People are too sophistaced for that, we want evidence, not empty name calling and scare tactics.

98% of all fossils have been discovered. The evidence for evolution is just not there in the fossil record. Random mutation cannot account for increased information. As dogs evolve ino new breeds we see that DNA information decreases.

 

[Gabethewiking]

Nothwithstanding that there is no evidence for this and it is all made up out of man's imagination, it is not even belieavable. Let me put to bed this notion that people don't believe in evolution because they are ignorant. The more I learn about evolution the more I see it's weaknesses, not its strenghts. Evolution is a dying theory, it can no longer be propped up through intimidation and the courts. People are too sophistaced for that, we want evidence, not empty name calling and scare tactics.

98% of all fossils have been discovered. The evidence for evolution is just not there in the fossil record. Random mutation cannot account for increased information. As dogs evolve ino new breeds we see that DNA information decreases.

98% of all fossils have been discovered?... What?

So all evidence is just imagination? Could you be more specific about this? Genetic mutation for example is in our imagination etc?

Are you going to supply any evidence for this absurd claim, or just claim it without any basis?


Also, I did not speak of the Theory of Evolution specifically, but Evolution, two different things (The theory explains the fact), but I suspect you may think that it is the same thing, correct?

 

[Gabethewiking]

Added, as you claim it is just imagination, does this mean Chimpanzees does not exist? Or how do you explain their tree of life and existence etc?

 

[Jose Fly]

While I appreciate your efforts and sympathize with your intent, I have to wonder...do you have any idea how much time and effort people have spent on this and other forums trying to explain the very basics of evolutionary biology to creationists? And from my perspective, it's almost always a wasted effort.

I'm reminded of a time in another forum where I had a one-on-one conversation with a creationist and we walked through the basics of evolution together. I answered all his questions and didn't move on to another topic until he assured me that he understood what we had just covered. When we wrapped it up, he thanked me and stated that while he still didn't agree with it, he at least understood it better. Other folks commented about how impressed the were with how well it went.

But then, not two weeks later the same person began starting creationist threads with all the same nonsense as before, as if the two of us had never had that conversation. When I asked him what happened, he refused to explain and just went off on how it was all an atheistic, materialist conspiracy. IOW, I had wasted a pretty significant amount of time.

To put it bluntly, is it worthwhile to try and explain something to people who, for whatever reason, absolutely refuse to accept it at any level? IMO, and in my experience, the answer is generally "no". One may as well try and explain how tasty pork ribs are to a Muslim or Orthodox Jew. They're not going there no matter what you say.

 

[Man of Faith]

98% of all fossils have been discovered?... What?

So all evidence is just imagination? Could you be more specific about this? Genetic mutation for example is in our imagination etc?

Are you going to supply any evidence for this absurd claim, or just claim it without any basis?


Also, I did not speak of the Theory of Evolution specifically, but Evolution, two different things (The theory explains the fact), but I suspect you may think that it is the same thing, correct?

You put up a drawing of the ToE, showing how mankind evolved from something other than mankind. Preposterous. That has never been seen and is imagination. Whenever we find evidence of man living in the past we always find evidence of them doing things, like building pyramids that we cannot duplicate. How were they that smart we ask. It's because they were intelligent just like us, there is no evidence they evolved from animals.

 

[Baydwin]

So you're saying humans evolved from chimps, everyone already knows that...

 

[Man of Faith]

Added, as you claim it is just imagination, does this mean Chimpanzees does not exist? Or how do you explain their tree of life and existence etc?

What we see and the evidence shows is creatures evolve or adapt within specific boundaries. There is no such thing as a dogcat or an apehuman.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Nothwithstanding that there is no evidence for this and it is all made up out of man's imagination, it is not even belieavable. Let me put to bed this notion that people don't believe in evolution because they are ignorant. The more I learn about evolution the more I see it's weaknesses, not its strenghts. Evolution is a dying theory, it can no longer be propped up through intimidation and the courts. People are too sophistaced for that, we want evidence, not empty name calling and scare tactics.

98% of all fossils have been discovered. The evidence for evolution is just not there in the fossil record. Random mutation cannot account for increased information. As dogs evolve ino new breeds we see that DNA information decreases.

Thank you for providing that incredible example of intentional ignorance and intellectual dishonesty.

 

[tumbleweed41]

You put up a drawing of the ToE, showing how mankind evolved from something other than mankind. Preposterous. That has never been seen and is imagination. Whenever we find evidence of man living in the past we always find evidence of them doing things, like building pyramids that we cannot duplicate. How were they that smart we ask. It's because they were intelligent just like us, there is no evidence they evolved from animals.

Bravo!! The ignorance is astounding. 1000 yrs from now anthropologist will view this post as the epitome of Creationist Man.

 

[Man of Faith]

Thank you for providing that incredible example of intentional ignorance and intellectual dishonesty.

Did I hear someone say that the movie Expelled wasn't true? Well here is the evidence that it is true and exactly what I am talking about that evolution is propogated through intimidation and fear. If I am a scientist this is what is waiting for me if I don't toe the party line on evolution.

 

[Gabethewiking]

You put up a drawing of the ToE, showing how mankind evolved from something other than mankind. Preposterous. That has never been seen and is imagination. Whenever we find evidence of man living in the past we always find evidence of them doing things, like building pyramids that we cannot duplicate. How were they that smart we ask. It's because they were intelligent just like us, there is no evidence they evolved from animals.

In the "past"? You seem to have a very limited view of history. You only refer back to a couple of thousands of years, thats nothing. We speak of hundreds of thousands if you want specific Human or Human like species.

Would you accept any fact shown? If so, please tell us what and we do our best.

 

[tumbleweed41]

What we see and the evidence shows is creatures evolve or adapt within specific boundaries. There is no such thing as a dogcat or an apehuman.

Dogcat and apehuman...priceless!!

A perfect example of the Kirk Cameron subspecies of Creationist Man.

 

[Gabethewiking]

What we see and the evidence shows is creatures evolve or adapt within specific boundaries. There is no such thing as a dogcat or an apehuman.

Correct, there is no such things as dogcats, that is silly and have nothing to do with the fact of Evolution, possible related to religious "miracle" believes, I do not know.

Every single post you give shows that you have no basic understandign of Evolution, please tell us what you do not understand and we try to explain it to you and we can go from there, this is a Forum, so I assume you are here to elarn and share, correct?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Did I hear someone say that the movie Expelled wasn't true? Well here is the evidence that it is true and exactly what I am talking about that evolution is propogated through intimidation and fear. If I am a scientist this is what is waiting for me if I don't toe the party line on evolution.

And here folks, we have the "Straw Man" Creationist.

(Speaking of straw men, we have had these conversations before MoF, I am still waiting for your Destruction of Scientific Dating Methods.)

 

[Gabethewiking]

While I appreciate your efforts and sympathize with your intent, I have to wonder...do you have any idea how much time and effort people have spent on this and other forums trying to explain the very basics of evolutionary biology to creationists? And from my perspective, it's almost always a wasted effort.

I'm reminded of a time in another forum where I had a one-on-one conversation with a creationist and we walked through the basics of evolution together. I answered all his questions and didn't move on to another topic until he assured me that he understood what we had just covered. When we wrapped it up, he thanked me and stated that while he still didn't agree with it, he at least understood it better. Other folks commented about how impressed the were with how well it went.

But then, not two weeks later the same person began starting creationist threads with all the same nonsense as before, as if the two of us had never had that conversation. When I asked him what happened, he refused to explain and just went off on how it was all an atheistic, materialist conspiracy. IOW, I had wasted a pretty significant amount of time.

To put it bluntly, is it worthwhile to try and explain something to people who, for whatever reason, absolutely refuse to accept it at any level? IMO, and in my experience, the answer is generally "no". One may as well try and explain how tasty pork ribs are to a Muslim or Orthodox Jew. They're not going there no matter what you say.

Jose, I guess I am living in a kind of dreamworld where I assume that people, if given good simple explanation of what they do not understand, will accept the fact rather then run away from it. I noticed that with people like Man of Fate, it is sheer ignorance and the lack of willingness to learn, it seems that he is afraid of learning as it questiosn his belief, It is a strange stance I can not relate too.

I guess I "hope" that atleast one or two of other Creationist reading this will learn and possible want to get a deeper understanding of Evolution and with this, make a better more safe world to live in and respect life instead of the hatred spread by Christians and Muslims today.

Maybe naive, but I try.