Zephyr
Moved on
I figure some don't understand the difference.
Of course, we could all just be Socialists, which would be pretty rad.
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How would you fix the US health care system?
- Thread starter Trey of Diamonds
- Start date
I figure some don't understand the difference.
Of course, we could all just be Socialists, which would be pretty rad.
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
I believe in a blended system that is both Capitalist and Socialist, we need a term for that.
Maybe they are mistaking socialized medicine for socialized insurance?
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
I think this may be the case.
Zephyr
Moved on
I believe the term is "outdated".
Zephyr
Moved on
But the system doesn't work. Why should we jump in the way of progress, defending a system that leaves millions without health care?
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Pfft, people should just stop getting sick so much. That would fix this whole mess.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
See, now you're thinking pro-actively, outside-of-the-box. This is just the type of paradigm shift we need to streamline and leverage our legacy health care system in order to repurpose it into a next-generation strategic model.
We already have socialist, single payer and private systems.
VA is socialist -- government owns the hospitals, Staff on salary. Medicare's single payer -- private, independent Drs and hospitals funded (not run) by government. And, of course private -- like single payer except you're the payer.
Now, we already pay twice what other developed countries do on healthcare, with inferior results. Why all this brouhaha about funding? We could cut our healthcare spending in half, our percentage of GDP dedicated to healthcare in half, and improve our system and access.
Don't you get it? We're driving around in $20,000 Chevys while the rest of the world is driving around in $10,000 Mercedes. And we're worried that a change that would cut our costs in half would be unaffordable!:banghead3
This is a no brainer -- The insurance industry is lying to us, playing us for fools, to keep their greedy fingers in the pie. :yes:
VA is socialist -- government owns the hospitals, Staff on salary. Medicare's single payer -- private, independent Drs and hospitals funded (not run) by government. And, of course private -- like single payer except you're the payer.
Now, we already pay twice what other developed countries do on healthcare, with inferior results. Why all this brouhaha about funding? We could cut our healthcare spending in half, our percentage of GDP dedicated to healthcare in half, and improve our system and access.
Don't you get it? We're driving around in $20,000 Chevys while the rest of the world is driving around in $10,000 Mercedes. And we're worried that a change that would cut our costs in half would be unaffordable!:banghead3
This is a no brainer -- The insurance industry is lying to us, playing us for fools, to keep their greedy fingers in the pie. :yes:
Last edited by a moderator:
credneck13
New Member
Socialized anything is, in my mind, the exact opposite of what this country stands for. We are compared to other countries and the standard of living/ healthcare systems and we abviously fail as a whole, and of course everyone thinks that socializing insurance or healthcare will help. It may, but then the whole point of america would be ruined. Insurance helps doctors make more, ok, doctors make more than dentists, maybe because people NEED treatment from a doctor, getting teeth whitened or a filling is a LUXURY. Having private sector insurance provides jobs, also giving people the "motivation" to get a good job to have or afford insurance, socializing insurance will get fun, especially when the losers living off of welfare and foodstamps still get free insurance (like medicaid which I am against) and don't HAVE to work. That's like socializing car insurance or any other optional coverage we have. also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we now going to be REQUIRED to have some form of insurance? Whether it be provate or the public option?
Zephyr
Moved on
Oh whoops didn't know that that was what America was all about. Please excuse me while I go kill the people that deny me the ability to afford my medication. Should I shoot the doctors, the insurance companies, the politicians, or guys like you that vote to prevent my healthcare? I only have so many bullets (god knows it's hard to get ammunition when you have schizophrenia!), so I need to prioritize.
T-Dawg
Self-appointed Lunatic
I thought you were refering to the combination of socialism and capitalism? The healthcare system we have currently is pure capitalist, which obviously is bad.
If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the things Obama wants as part of his healthcare plan.
Er, aren't mercedes much better (and more expensive) than chevys?
Gee, you think that might be one of the reasons "our" country sucks? It troubles me that there are still so many patriots who love this country the way it is. I'm mostly conservative and I can still see that running hospitals for profit (instead of for people) is morally corrupt.
Go with the guys like him who vote to prevent your healthcare first, because most likely, they have weapons of their own, which you can use to reload. After you kill the voters and take their supplies, you go for the politicians, and freeze the country's political system by killing all of the corrupt politicians (or just all of them to be safe), which prevents them from increasing security measures to catch you. Since you killed most of the people voting against you, incite the remaining population (which are probably all liberals) to elect far-left socialists into congress, which should then, being far-left socialists, vote to have the insurance companies illegalized and demolished.
The doctors won't have to be killed because they're merely tools of the system
.Good luck getting away with all that XD.
credneck13
New Member
The point is that we already do have socialized insurance, medicare and medicaid, and its near impossible to get best treatment with those. Its not the providers that need fixin, it is the system. The healthcare system is going to suck whether or not everyone has the same insurance. The only thing socializing insurance will do is give us more lost jobs, YAY! Lol
Zephyr
Moved on
A combination of socialism and capitalism will not go far enough.
You are either horribly misinformed, or just an idiot. This is not part of any plan discussed, as much as conservatives try to claim it is.
That's the point. We're overpaying for a piece of crap healthcare system while other countries are getting great deals on quality care.
Go with the guys like him who vote to prevent your healthcare first, because most likely, they have weapons of their own, which you can use to reload. After you kill the voters and take their supplies, you go for the politicians, and freeze the country's political system by killing all of the corrupt politicians (or just all of them to be safe), which prevents them from increasing security measures to catch you. Since you killed most of the people voting against you, incite the remaining population (which are probably all liberals) to elect far-left socialists into congress, which should then, being far-left socialists, vote to have the insurance companies illegalized and demolished.
The doctors won't have to be killed because they're merely tools of the system
Good luck getting away with all that XD.
A good post.
Zephyr
Moved on
How will socializing insurance lead to any lost jobs? Which jobs will be lost?
All societies are socialized, credneck. The whole point of a society is to form a cooperative enterprise where each individual doesn't spent most of his time individually arranging shelter, food, safety, protection,education, &c. for his family.
It's always cheaper to buy wholesale than retail. Do you really want several different for-profit fire departments, police departments, emergency medicine services to choose froms? Do you really want a monthly fire or police bill? Do you really want to have to pay for elementary education -- like third world countries do? Do you want to take away grandpa's medicare or VA benefits? This is all socialism!
You mention other countries, and their superior healthcare and standards of living. how do you think these were achieved? -- That's right -- Socialism!
Socialism isn't a bad or fearsome thing. It won't take away our freedom. It will increase our happiness and well being. Why do you have such strong reservations about it?
Our founding fathers didn't want a dog-eat-dog, dickensian society with everyone competing with everyone else. They wanted a co-operative (socialist) society where everyone looked out for one another. That's what was so special about America -- it was an experiment in applied Humanism, where everyone pulled together to achieve maximum freedom, prosperity and happiness with the least effort.
You could say fire and police protection are luxuries too. but that's the benefit of a society over a tribe -- co-operative, retail priced social services. Socialize the services everyone uses, and we can have them at high quality but bargain-basement prices.
You want to retain an expensive, clunky, Rube Goldberg of a system to provide jobs?! Why not just outlaw bulldozers and backhoes? -- think of how many ditchdiggers a single bulldozer puts out of work! But I don't recall any public outcry when heavy equipment was developed. (Maybe because no-one stood to loose big bucks if ditchdiggers were put on the dole -- oops -- street). It's a question of efficiency. Bulldozers and a socialized commons give you more bang for the buck.
Much of this last point I confess I'm not following, credneck. Rephrase?
You do mention car insurance. Well, as you say, it's already required. Think about this: What actual service do the car insurance companies perform? They pool risk, average expenses, and add a big chunk for profit. What if we did socialize it? We'd pool risk, average expenses but the not charge a big chunk for profit! What a thought -- same service for much lower price. How would that be a bad thing?
You also seem to be worrying that with a safety net, large numbers of slackers would just lie back and rake in welfare money. Well, why speculate? Look around. Has that been the experience of all the other countries that have tried it? -- No it hasn't. Why do you think things would be different here?
credneck13
New Member
its evident that lazy people will just lay back. They already do it with the crap systems we already have in place, how is enstilling a better system going to help? The point of it being the law to carry HEALTH insurance, I know we are obliged to carry care insurance. And we DO pay a police and fire bill, is called TAXES!!! This country allows for too much bs from lazy underachieving people. If we are going to change anything it needs to be the removal of medicaid, and welfare, not beefing like policies up