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How to read Quran- the amazing revealed Recitation for correct understanding?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Please read my post #195 in another thread.
    And everybody is welcome to add any more points to it.
    Regards
     
  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    The following is a valid point expressed by Mr.Kais Dukes whose mother is Arabic and his father is an English convert to Islam:
    "Any English translation of the Qur'an can never be totally accurate because each Arabic word can have many shades of meaning depending on context."
    http://corpus.quran.com/interview.jsp
    Regards
     
  3. Sees

    Sees Dragonslayer

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    How would you suggest non-Arabic speakers get the best understanding?

    Do you think it's a bit of a stumbling block for the universalism of Islam?
     
  4. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    There are only:
    Number of unique words by *root* = 1685
    http://quickestwaytoquran.blogspot.ca/2013/08/number-of-unique-words-in-quran.html
    So not much root words vocabulary of Arabic is needed.
    One could get the message of Quran from any translation but in case of any ambiguity due to translator's mistake, one could verify from the Arabic word and phrases.
    Regards
     
  5. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I am myself a non-Arab yet I could understand the Quran directly from the Arabic text and where there is some difficulty I could consult the on-line resources and find out the correct understanding.
    Regards
     
  6. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    As I mentioned above there are about 1685 root words of Arabic used in Quran.
    Knowing Arabic or becoming a master of Arabic is another thing, learning Quran and understanding it quite another thing.
    If one learns 10 roots words used in Quran daily, one would have enough base for doing research in Quran in Arabic in about say six months time. Not bad
    People spend so much time even the whole life in learning a subject of their profession. Right?
    Regards
     
  7. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡ Lux Aeterna
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    I always thought that that excuse given by Muslims was very stupid and desperate. It seems to be a way for them to dismiss criticisms of the Qur'an coming from English speakers and speakers of other languages besides Arabic, by saying that it doesn't say what you think it does and confuse those who don't know Arabic. In other words, it's a trick. You would think the Almighty would come up with a better way to deliver His message that wasn't hindered by being given in such an apparently difficult language that only a minority of His followers can understand and which can only be properly understood by studying it in the aforementioned impossible to accurately translate language. That rather screws over the many millions of people who are illiterate, doesn't it? It also really screws them over doubly since the religion at hand forbids images so they can't even depict the messages that the Qur'an contains. I mean, the intricate stained glass windows on churches, icons and paintings were referred to as the "poor man's Bible" to help those who couldn't read understand the message of the Biblical stories.

    On the other hand, Christians and Jews don't seem to have this problem with the Bible, which was originally written in ancient Hebrew and Greek. We don't claim that you must read it in the original languages to understand it. Just get a good, scholarly translation that is well-regarded in the mainstream academic world.
     
    #7 Saint Frankenstein, Oct 3, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
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  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    You are simply wrong. Isn't Islam world's second largest religion?
    It is rather a matter of pride in Muslims that Quran has been sent in Arabic, the language in which our beloved prophet spoke and his companions.
    As I have mentioned above that about 1685 roots words have been used in Quran. With some effort it is easy to learn these words. Right?
    Regards
     
  9. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡ Lux Aeterna
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    What does that have to do with anything? Many, if not most, of the world's Muslims can't read Arabic. So their beloved holy book is really quite useless to them and they can only go by what their imam is telling them the book says.
    So it's just a matter of Arab feelings of superiority, then.
    That means nothing when you're illiterate, as almost a billion adults in the world are today.
     
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  10. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

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    Argument from numbers fallacy. By your logic Christianity is the true religion because it is the largest - and you (and I, for that matter) are both hell-bound.


    Arab cultural supremacism for the win.


    And yet it's still difficult to see why an all-powerful deity would choose to reveal a religion in a language that is really quite complex, not to mention it's not even a language the majority of the world's population speaks.
     
  11. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    And Quran encourages one to increase one's knowledge.
    Regards
     
  12. Mitch M

    Mitch M Member

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    Quran encourages one to increase one's knowledge in the Gospels and Torah as well. However all Manuscripts of the Torah and Gospels Contradict the Quran. This is really strange ?

    The Quran Is not Confirmed by World history nor the Bible. Is The Quran - only a Chance to increase Your Imagination and Fantasy, and Personal Dislike ? = against Abraham, Jacob,
    The CHARACTER of the God of the Bible The Jews and the Lord Jesus Christ. Who is the IMAGE Deity and MORPHING, manifestation of the Spirit of God - Manifested / morphed - into HUMAN Form.

    The God of Muslims Does not MORPH - Manifest Himself into Human Form. As God Did in the Torah. Or the God of Abraham. muslims Simply have No preserved scriptures for their Faith.

    All of the reasons that Muslims Give for REJECTING the Torah and Gospels. Muslims Can Give
    because they have no torah nor Gospels.

    They seek to Apply Rules and CRITICIZM to the Torah and Gospels But REFUSE to Apply the Same RULES to the Quran.

    Muslims insist that Christians SHOW them where jESUS Said the WORDS *( I am God ) However they Ignore that jESUS Said that he was The Almighty, the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega. jESUS Claimed to be God. But he Did not Say the WORDS *( I am God )

    Muslims do not consider the Fact that mohammud never Said the Words *( I am a Prophet ). If Mohammud never said these Magic Words. Muslims should Deny Him as a Prophet. But with Islam the Goal is to destroy the Torah and Gospels and the Deity of the jEWS and their God.

    But the Quran Claims that they Do have a Torah and Gospel that Confirms the Quran. But there is none.
    I find ISLAM to be filled with Emptiness.
     
    #12 Mitch M, Oct 10, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
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  13. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    The Christians don't have the original word revealed on Jesus from G-d in the language Jesus spoke, they lost it through their negligence. Now they have to rely on translation of the translation.
    Regards
     
  14. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Why can someone with a very basic understanding of Arabic get a more accurate meaning than a world class translator using additional footnotes when dealing with complex passages?

    I can speak more than one language, so I understand the difficulties of translating some words accurately. But, this is because I know how words are used in context through direct experience.

    If someone learns only the Arabic needed to understand the Quran and does so in a textbook /classroom style they basically are mostly learning how to translate between 2 languages. They do not understand contextual subtleties from experience of usage, but because they are instructed how to interpret them.

    When the Quran is written in another language, Untranslatable words words could be left in Arabic anyway with relevant footnotes attached to explain.

    The major difference is aesthetical rather than meaningful. A good translation, in theory, can get very close to the original in meaning, but not necessarily in aesthetics.

    I can understand why a Muslim might want to learn the Arabic for this reason, but a good annotated translation should be good enough to get an almost complete understanding of the meaning of the original. (well at least one of the many accepted meanings anyway).
     
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  15. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡ Lux Aeterna
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    Lol, you don't have any proof of that and, like I said, Christians don't claim you have to read the Gospel in the original languages to be able to understand it. Either way, it takes even bigger leap of faith to believe that a guy centuries later and thousands of miles away knew more about the life of Christ than those who lived within His lifetime. Nice try with your half-baked conspiracy theories. Fail. :rolleyes:
     
  16. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    The aesthetics as well as the meaning are important.
    Whatever the language of a book (here Quran) the meaning of a word is best understood in the verse/sentence it is used, and the true meaning of a sentence is best understood in the passage (some preceding and some following sentences of the verse in focus ), a passage could be best understood in its chapter, and so on a chapter is best understood in the whole book or Quran. Then there is a context of a place (space) and time, there could be many correct translations to a word (or say a verse/sentence/passage/chapter) if the context is not against it (rather approves and supports it). If somebody assumes a wrong meaning, the context could out-rightly reject it. When one tries to understand the things deeply then one has to resort to etymology of the words and etymology of a word brings forth a new realm of meaning, its history, culture etc.
    Quran is pragmatic, it addressed the pagan Meccans, then the people around Christians, Jews , Zoroastrians and others; then the whole world at that time, in the past and also in future.
    So it is deeper and deeper and deeper; language is not as important as are the meanings, and meaning of life and humanity.
    Regards
     
  17. Mitch M

    Mitch M Member

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    Someday is will try to learn Arabic; It is a Very beautiful Language. Arabians are a very talented and unique people.
    They are very musically talented and very beautiful and smart. I honestly feel that islam has stunted and hindered the mental development of so many Arabians.

    I have had Arabian friends years ago. They would not remain my friend because I was Jewish. They were Smart, Talented and very nice but they really disliked Jews and Israel. Every time an event happened in the Middle East they would spend the day telling me that I was a Jew and make fun of me and talk really bad about Israel.
     
  18. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    It is a good intention. Hebrew and Arabic are sister languages, if you know Hebrew it will be easy to learn Arabic also.
    The best way to learn Arabic is to learn Quran and the meaning of the Arabic words in Quran. Just about 1685 root words of Arabic used in Quran are to be learnt. While one would be learning Quran, one would have in-depth learning of Torah also.
    Regards
     
  19. leibowde84

    leibowde84 Veteran Member

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    So, can you read Arabic? I'm confused.
     
  20. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I can understand Quran in Arabic, directly.
    Regards
     
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