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Featured How to prove?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Amanaki, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

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    How to prove spirituality to someone when spiritually is something that happens within us?
    How to prove to someone that realm we do not see with physical eyes does exist?

    Does it need to be proven to someone who do not belive in other then physical existance?
     
  2. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I prefer probability

    7billion copies of a learning device
    and each one ends in dust?

    not one chance of surviving the last breath?
    not one in billions?
     
  3. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    Go back a step and question your assumptions. If you can't demonstrate it to others, what reason do you have to accept it as true?

    If you have good reasons, then these should give you ideas of how you can demonstrate the truth of your ideas to others.
     
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  4. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    That's not probability; that's begging the question.
     
  5. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    No.
     
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  6. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

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    This question is not asked from my own P.O.W it is asked as a general question because of the everlasting discussion between belivers and non belivers.
    It is not an attempt on singeling out one or two people.
     
  7. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Well, for example, we can prove that radio waves exist even though we cannot see them. We can prove that ultrasound exists event though we cannot hear it.

    We do all of these by extending our senses using devices we construct. That is how we show something exists that we cannot directly perceive.

    I am not clear about what it even means to say that something exists that cannot be detected physically.

    Need? Only if you want to convince them that this realm exists.
     
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  8. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    One way you could prove it exists for a non-believer is suggest a 'mental experiment' that would conclusively produce the required evidence. This should be something available to everyone and that gives consistent results.
     
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  9. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

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    There are science study of meditator masters that has proven that the masters prodused ultrasound waves only by use of their brain. (i will see if i find the link.)
     
  10. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

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    it can not give a constant result because if you use more then one person they will be on different level of wisdom and they will do things a little different and they will understand same thing a little different. this is why science never could prove what spiritual people belive in
     
  11. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    not at all.....

    life is real enough
    if you don't believe that.....bang your head on the wall til it bleeds

    death is real enough
    kick a dead man and see if he flips you off

    and if no one survives the last breath....
    then Man is a complete mystery
    no explanation
    no purpose
    and extinction is the only fate
     
  12. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    My answer was also meant to be a general answer.

    Sorry for the confusion - I meant "you" in the sense of "the general you."
     
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  13. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

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    No harm done :) as long we can accept each others minor lapes its all going to be fine :)
     
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  14. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    I would suggest you should not waste your time trying to prove things.

    Proof is for the law and for mathematics only. Science manages quite well without proving anything. Most of what we do in real life is based on assessing likelihood and value, not proof, in any case.

    The best way to get someone to see the value of spirituality is to exhibit it yourself and find ways to create a spiritual atmosphere. This is what things like religious ritual - and religious art and music - are for, of course.
     
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  15. dingdao

    dingdao The eternal Tao cannot be told - Tao Te Ching

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    Let's try this for the next step: We will attempt to prove something that everyone assumes exists.
    Prove the existence of thought.
    I don't know the answer.
     
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  16. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    If it's something you feel, and it has an effect on you that can be seen or felt by others -- for example if you were transformed into a radiant, loving human being -- they might believe that something exists that caused it even if they couldn't feel it.

    However, when I see that believers in a religion act pretty much the way that non-believers act, my assumption is that they don't know anything that should interest me.
     
  17. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    We can now measure the brain well enough to read at least some thoughts.
     
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  18. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Personally, I have no need to prove anything to anyone, so it's never a matter of how, but it is a matter of why?
     
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  19. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    It needs to be proven, or, at least, evidenced, only if you want it to be accepted by others.
    Lots of things we can't directly perceive are generally accepted, if consistent, reproducible effects can be demonstrated, unexplainable by other hypotheses.
    But what is the significance? What does this have to do with anything spiritual?
     
  20. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Avatar Change Imminent
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    Some things are meant to be proven. To join a group which is based upon proven beliefs you are required to learn the proofs not just recite the belief. This includes philosophical beliefs which are based upon philosophical reasoning, and then you are required usually to learn the reasoning and be able to explain it. You cannot become a Chemistry teacher if you don't know how to combine and analyze chemicals.

    Some things are not meant to be proven and are instead something you accept upon joining. For example suppose you join a group which is defined by believing something. How can you join if you don't adopt the group's beliefs? This includes non-philosophical beliefs, miraculous beliefs and political stances. You can believe that Jesus walks upon water, but you cannot prove it.
     
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