How should the Christian Church treat homosexuals?

[Vasiel]

the word of God says no homsexual will find the kingdom of God...

yes or no??

Here... allow me to assist you on placing down the passages you are possibly referring too. Since it is clear that you either do not know them yourself, or you just enjoy running this conversation around in circles.

First off there is the creation story in Genesis that many conservative Christians cling to as a foundation for much of their Homophobia. I won't quote it all here since most Christians should know it.

Then in Genesis Chapter 19 there is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah... which after multiple looks at I have come to the conclusion (within my own experience) that Homosexuality was not the Sin of Sodom. But rather over-indulgence, hostility and gang rape.

Then we have the verses in Leviticus, which every right-wing conservative/fundamentalist LOVES using.

[FONT=arial, helvetica]Leviticus 18:22 - "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."[/FONT]

As well as:

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Then in the New Testament we have:

1 Corinthians 6:9 - 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (21st Century King James Version)

Many Bibles exchange the word effeminate for Homosexual in this verse.

Then we have:

Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."

And.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine." And that's about it.

So now, feel more than free to jump up and down in excitement. Your Bible says what you want it to say, so you think... however it's always good to go back and look at the Hebrew and Greek translations as well.

Since certain words were translated in a certain way according to the translator. However I wish to reiterate my original point, which is this.... without any substantial evidence outside of your own relative experience, what is written above cannot be considered "Absolute Truth" as you coin it.

There are many, many religious/spiritual scriptures in the world. Using yours as the source of validation for superiority over other texts is ridiculous. Because other religions and texts can be used exactly the same way. No evidence just "I am right, you are wrong... my holy book tells you and me so".

Such accusations would never hold up in court.

 

[waitasec]

so no gay christians///lol

fine by me

 

[krsnaraja]

I know I am right about the biblical view of homosexuality but I appreciate your agreeing...

the bible has literal text and implied text, to merely use one would be improper use of God's word, sometimes we look to Gods nature for the answers, I see no problem with that as long as we are consistant with it...

Consistent with what? With how one should treat homosexuals when they are in the Christian Church working with the priest or pastor? Let them dress like this guy who actually is not a homosexual.

[youtube]jsezr0qiFIc[/youtube]
Todd Rundgren - Hello Its Me - YouTube

 

[Awoon]

The word of Jesus says the sinners, outcasts, harlots will enter the Kingdom of God before the religious.

BTW Jesus didn't say "born again" sinners, harlots or outcasts.

 

[krsnaraja]

The word of Jesus says the sinners, outcasts, harlots will enter the Kingdom of God before the religious.

BTW Jesus didn't say "born again" sinners, harlots or outcasts.

A self-realized soul sees everyone equally ( Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 3 )

 

[espo35]

Here... allow me to assist you on placing down the passages you are possibly referring too. Since it is clear that you either do not know them yourself, or you just enjoy running this conversation around in circles.

First off there is the creation story in Genesis that many conservative Christians cling to as a foundation for much of their Homophobia. I won't quote it all here since most Christians should know it.

Then in Genesis Chapter 19 there is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah... which after multiple looks at I have come to the conclusion (within my own experience) that Homosexuality was not the Sin of Sodom. But rather over-indulgence, hostility and gang rape.

Then we have the verses in Leviticus, which every right-wing conservative/fundamentalist LOVES using.

[FONT=arial, helvetica]Leviticus 18:22 - "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."[/FONT]

As well as:

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Then in the New Testament we have:

1 Corinthians 6:9 - 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (21st Century King James Version)

Many Bibles exchange the word effeminate for Homosexual in this verse.

Then we have:

Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."

And.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine." And that's about it.

So now, feel more than free to jump up and down in excitement. Your Bible says what you want it to say, so you think... however it's always good to go back and look at the Hebrew and Greek translations as well.

Since certain words were translated in a certain way according to the translator. However I wish to reiterate my original point, which is this.... without any substantial evidence outside of your own relative experience, what is written above cannot be considered "Absolute Truth" as you coin it.

There are many, many religious/spiritual scriptures in the world. Using yours as the source of validation for superiority over other texts is ridiculous. Because other religions and texts can be used exactly the same way. No evidence just "I am right, you are wrong... my holy book tells you and me so".

Such accusations would never hold up in court.

That is all there is to it.

Romans 3 says:

23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom [paid] by Christ Jesus. 25 God set him forth as an offering for propitiation through faith in his blood. This was in order to exhibit his own righteousness, because he was forgiving the sins that occurred in the past while God was exercising forbearance; 26 so as to exhibit his own righteousness in this present season, that he might be righteous even when declaring righteous the man that has faith in Jesus.
27 Where, then, is the boasting? It is shut out. Through what law? That of works? No indeed, but through the law of faith. 28 For we reckon that a man is declared righteous by faith apart from works of law. 29 Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also of people of the nations? Yes, of people of the nations also, 30 if truly God is one, who will declare circumcised people righteous as a result of faith and uncircumcised people righteous by means of their faith

 

[work in progress]

Here... allow me to assist you on placing down the passages you are possibly referring too. Since it is clear that you either do not know them yourself, or you just enjoy running this conversation around in circles.........................

And, thanks for that! I'll bet most of us who have come out of a fundamentalist background are familiar enough with the verses, but were waiting for them to be presented as evidence.....which never arrived.

 

[Vasiel]

And, thanks for that! I'll bet most of us who have come out of a fundamentalist background are familiar enough with the verses, but were waiting for them to be presented as evidence.....which never arrived.

I did it because it cuts straight to the heart of the problem and it means we can address these scripture head on without making vague accusations that hold little background context.

Yes I am gay, but I have also researched these scriptures for myself. They are many of the reasons why I do not consider myself Christian. Not because I don't believe in forgiveness, but because churches cling to these verses, and yet ignore the verses about drunkenness, lust, theft, lying etc etc.

They pick and choose their religion, in a belief system that apparently isn't meant to be "that" flexible... according to most Churches. They show favouritism towards certain scriptures over another, or ignore others altogether.

According to Paul, women were still under the covenant of their husbands and should not be allowed to teach the Gospel. But I have seen women who are brilliant, compassionate teachers.

Understand that this is my personal experience of the Bible, and why I personally do not resonate towards it. I've said a few harsh things in past posts out of anger, merely because I find myself confronted with the same sort of ignorance over and over again, and it does eat away at me.

Even though I am secure within my sexuality, I know that the homophobia of fundamentalist Christians has created a negative impact on LGBTIQ Youth, and that is an issue I personally feel needs addressing.

Where is the love and compassion of Christ? Almost as importantly, why do people seem to treat Homosexuality as a "worse" sin than say alcoholism or lust? It all becomes very messy.

I am not afraid of the scriptures I posted, because in my own relative experience the Bible doesn't hold the same authority over my life as it does within the lives of those who follow it as their form of faith. I'm not saying it's useless or not of value, for I have seen many people inspired by it, and by the actions and ministry of Jesus Christ.

I just like to see Christians educated on what they believe so they don't just parrot what their churches teach them without any real understanding of what the Bible actually says. But then I treat all religions in such the same way.

 

[Vasiel]

in much the same way* (corrected)

 

[espo35]

I did it because it cuts straight to the heart of the problem and it means we can address these scripture head on without making vague accusations that hold little background context.

It is pretty cut and dried.

Yes I am gay, but I have also researched these scriptures for myself. They are many of the reasons why I do not consider myself Christian. Not because I don't believe in forgiveness, but because churches cling to these verses, and yet ignore the verses about drunkenness, lust, theft, lying etc etc.

It's true that homosexuality is no worse than many other "sins" we are all/most guilty of.

They pick and choose their religion, in a belief system that apparently isn't meant to be "that" flexible... according to most Churches. They show favouritism towards certain scriptures over another, or ignore others altogether.

You have printed the verses from the Bible. Bible-based religions cannot be flexible on what it says.

According to Paul, women were still under the covenant of their husbands and should not be allowed to teach the Gospel. But I have seen women who are brilliant, compassionate teachers.

And yet, the Bible says what it says.

Understand that this is my personal experience of the Bible, and why I personally do not resonate towards it. I've said a few harsh things in past posts out of anger, merely because I find myself confronted with the same sort of ignorance over and over again, and it does eat away at me.

Even though I am secure within my sexuality, I know that the homophobia of fundamentalist Christians has created a negative impact on LGBTIQ Youth, and that is an issue I personally feel needs addressing.

Is it homophobia for a christian to follow the Bibles' teaching? While I'm sure that fits many a christian.... that's a pretty broad brush you're painting with.

Where is the love and compassion of Christ? Almost as importantly, why do people seem to treat Homosexuality as a "worse" sin than say alcoholism or lust? It all becomes very messy.

Excellent points. In my heart, I feel Jesus knows what's in YOUR heart and takes that into account. I feel sure of it....but, my opinion + .99 cents will get you two tacos at Jack In The Box.....

I am not afraid of the scriptures I posted, because in my own relative experience the Bible doesn't hold the same authority over my life as it does within the lives of those who follow it as their form of faith. I'm not saying it's useless or not of value, for I have seen many people inspired by it, and by the actions and ministry of Jesus Christ.

Don't throw out the baby with the bath-water. It sounds like you do have faith in the forgiveness of Jesus. Don't lose that.

I just like to see Christians educated on what they believe so they don't just parrot what their churches teach them without any real understanding of what the Bible actually says. But then I treat all religions in such the same way.

Most religions are Babylon the Great....and as full of poop as the Christmas goose.

But not all...............

And thanks for expressing yourself so clearly and eloquently.

 

[Fester]

Then why did you ask if Jesus needs to screen the self righteous from the the sinners?Do you not think he knows?Who did he preach grace to and who did he preach hell to?

It was sarcasm, based on what you had posted previously.

 

[Fester]

not a direct condemnation of homosexuality though

That's not even an indirect condemnation.

 

[Awoon]

In response to another thread where we are asked not to debate whether homosexuality is a sin, I wanted to create this one. In this one I want you to really think about it, question the very cores of your assumptions.

Like Homos

 

[9Westy9]

That's not even an indirect condemnation.

I tend to ignore the biblical passages on homosexuality as they're all built on the assumption that people choose to be homosexual rather than considering it might be genetic. I'm also unable to fathom why God would care about homosexuality.

 

[Awoon]

I tend to ignore the biblical passages on homosexuality as they're all built on the assumption that people choose to be homosexual rather than considering it might be genetic. I'm also unable to fathom why God would care about homosexuality.

I have not read anything from a God concerning Homosexuality.:no:

 

[Fester]

I tend to ignore the biblical passages on homosexuality as they're all built on the assumption that people choose to be homosexual rather than considering it might be genetic. I'm also unable to fathom why God would care about homosexuality.

Those passages that are considered to be about homosexuality are ambiguous at best. In all cases, to whom the passages were intended and for what reason are key to understanding their true meanings.

 

[9Westy9]

Those passages that are considered to be about homosexuality are ambiguous at best. In all cases, to whom the passages were intended and for what reason are key to understanding their true meanings.

true. A lot seem to be 1) involved in the sexual act and 2) Directed at certain types of 'homosexual'

 

[Penumbra]

Thread closed for staff review.​