How responsible is God for Satan's actions?

[InChrist]

And yet god does, right? What good came of the black death? The trail of tears? The donner party incident? Jack the ripper? The list is endless.

You don't know what good may have come out of those situations, especially since you are only looking at things with a temporal view. In themselves, the things you have mentioned are terrible from the human perspective because that is all we can see. But God sees the eternal outcome and how the bad or good circumstances of this life affect one's heart, mind, thoughts, attitudes, behaviors, choices and eternal destiny and eternity is His priority.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It was not a snake that spoke to Eve. Unless you believe snakes are capable of speech.

Well it was made under request by the OPs premise assuming for a minute the Bible was true for sake of discussion.

 

[Enoch07]

Well it was made under request by the OPs premise assuming for a minute the Bible was true for sake of discussion.

The OP is a strawman. You can't make a logical argument by starting the premise off with a misrepresentation. That is the definition of a strawman.

straw man
ˌstrô ˈman/
noun
noun: strawman

1. 1.
   an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
   "her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

 

[Twilight Hue]

The OP is a strawman. You can't make a logical argument by starting the premise off with a misrepresentation. That is the definition of a strawman.

straw man
ˌstrô ˈman/
noun
noun: strawman

1. 1.
   an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
   "her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"

I took the discussion as being hypothetical from the opening.

 

[Enoch07]

I took the discussion as being hypothetical from the opening.

A hypothetical argument wouldn't involve citing the Bible.

He would just say "Is someone who drops a snake in a kids bedroom responsible for the child being hurt" that is a hypothetical scenario. When he related that as a misrepresentation of Genesis it becomes a strawman, whether intentional or not.

 

[Aldrnari]

You don't know what good may have come out of those situations, especially since you are only looking at things with a temporal view. In themselves, the things you have mentioned are terrible from the human perspective because that is all we can see. But God sees the eternal outcome and how the bad or good circumstances of this life affect one's heart, mind, thoughts, attitudes, behaviors, choices and eternal destiny and eternity is His priority.

Meh... How very convenient. Under this logic, any horrible event can be justified.

Everything works out in the end, right? I'm not so sure I'd think that if, say, I had an toddler who died from bone cancer.

 

[Spiderman]

A hypothetical argument wouldn't involve citing the Bible.

He would just say "Is someone who drops a snake in a kids bedroom responsible for the child being hurt" that is a hypothetical scenario. When he related that as a misrepresentation of Genesis it becomes a strawman, whether intentional or not.

In the OP I wasn't talking about genesis... I was simply asking the question that if a father lets a serpent into the room with his children knowing what the serpent would do to the children, isn't the father just as responsible as the serpent. Adam and Eve were not children and were not in a room, therefor the opening post was not referencing them. it was not a straw man, it was a simple question.

 

[Enoch07]

In the OP I wasn't talking about genesis... I was simply asking the question that if a father lets a serpent into the room with his children knowing what the serpent would do to the children, isn't the father just as responsible as the serpent. Adam and Eve were not children and were not in a room, therefor the opening post was not referencing them. it was not a straw man, it was a simple question.

Then why did you post in scriptural debates?

If your question is purely hypothetical, and you are not comparing it to Genesis then it belongs in the morals/ethics section.

Backpedalling now just looks bad on you.

 

[Spiderman]

Then why did you post in scriptural debates?

If your question is purely hypothetical, and you are not comparing it to Genesis then it belongs in the morals/ethics section.

Backpedalling now just looks bad on you.

because Satan is a part of scripture and the argument is based on if scripture is true... It was intended to be a scriptural debate. I'm not back peddling. but it's fairly obvious if you read the opening post that I was not referring to Adam and Eve

 

[Enoch07]

because Satan is a part of scripture and the argument is based on if scripture is true... It was intended to be a scriptural debate. I'm not back peddling. but it's fairly obvious if you read the opening post that I was not referring to Adam and Eve

Your argument is a strawman of Genesis. Which is why you put it in Scriptural Debates. Your backpedalling because you got caught using a strawman. You can't argue using the serpent, the father, in a room and claim it's not about Eden IF it is scriptural debates, which it is.

Cite where the serpent and the father appear together in any other book of the Bible to prove you were not talking about Genesis.

 

[Aldrnari]

Pre-destination is horsep00p. It's not moving the goal because, there is no single future to arrive at. You have a multitude of futures any of which you could arrive at, solely based on your own choices. God knows all of them, which is why he is omnipotent.

Curious, but what are your thoughts on prophecies in the bible, then? Are they just prophecies for something that might happen?

 

[Spiderman]

Your argument is a strawman of Genesis. Which is why you put it in Scriptural Debates. Your backpedalling because you got caught using a strawman. You can't argue using the serpent, the father, in a room and claim it's not about Eden IF it is scriptural debates, which it is.

Cite where the serpent and the father appear together in any other book of the Bible to prove you were not talking about Genesis.

It's obvious I wasn't talking about Genesis. I said if a father lets a serpent into a room with children is the father responsible.

the Garden of Eden was not a room and Adam and Eve were not children. It's obvious I wasn't talking about them.

It's a scriptural debate, because I'm saying let's say the Bible is true, and if the Bible is true, how responsible is God for Satan's actions. It's absolutely 100% obvious I was not talking about Adam and Eve just read the opening post.

 

[Enoch07]

Curious, but what are your thoughts on prophecies in the bible, then? Are they just prophecies for something that might happen?

Some have happened already some have yet to happen.

 

[Enoch07]

It's obvious I wasn't talking about Genesis. I said if a father lets a serpent into a room with children is the father responsible.

the Garden of Eden was not a room and Adam and Eve were not children. It's obvious I wasn't talking about them.

It's a scriptural debate, because I'm saying let's say the Bible is true, and if the Bible is true, how responsible is God for Satan's actions. It's absolutely 100% obvious I was not talking about Adam and Eve just read the opening post.

What scripture (book) are you debating then?

If it's just a general religions debate there is a section for that.

This is scriptural debates, you have have specific scripture. If your not debating Genesis then what book are you debating?

 

[Aldrnari]

Some have happened already some have yet to happen.

But yet them happening would involve some kind of predetermination, no? They are predictions of fated events.

 

[Enoch07]

But yet them happening would involve some kind of predetermination, no? They are predictions of fated events.

Predetermination is not pre-destination.

Pre-destination is about salvation for some but not others as if it was predetermined

Prophecy is saying an event will happen.

2 totally separate ideas.

 

[Aldrnari]

Predetermination is not pre-destination.

Pre-destination is about salvation for some but not others as if it was predetermined

Prophecy is saying these event will happen.

2 totally separate ideas.

Oh? What about when Jesus said to peter that before the rooster crows, he'd deny him 3 times? Could he have not decided to do something else instead, given god can only see possible futures?

 

[Spiderman]

What scripture (book) are you debating then?

If it's just a general religions debate there is a section for that.

This is scriptural debates, you have have specific scripture. If your not debating Genesis then what book are you debating?

Well if that's the case then maybe I put this in the wrong section. The book I'm debating is the Bible in general but it's a debate that the person first has to assume the Bible is true and then debate how responsible God is for Satan's actions.

there is no particular book in the Bible I'm debating.

 

[Enoch07]

Oh? What about when Jesus said to peter that before the rooster crows, he'd deny him 3 times? Could he have not decided to do something else instead, given god can only see possible futures?

Peter had choices he could have denied only once, twice, three, four etc times, or not even at all. He still chose to do it 3 times.

 

[Spiderman]

Upon reflection I realized this should not be in the scriptural debates