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How Much Do You Doubt God's Existence?

Heyo

Veteran Member
That's only a refutation of a very specific type of god.
That's what you asked for. "Any" god, not all gods.

An omnipotent, omni benevolent god can't exist (except with serious re-definition of the "omni" characteristics or suffering).
Most gods, I've heard of, are either internally contradictory or they contradict reality. But there are just so many, with so many different combinations of properties, and no constrictions of what can be called a god, that it is impossible to logically refute all gods.

But at the same time, the same fact, leads to the conclusion that the god concept in general is undefined, and the existence question is moot.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Is there any room in your belief to doubt God exists?
Or do you believe in God with 100% certainty?

If you're agnostic does that mean you believe there is a 50% chance God exists and a 50% chance he doesn't?

If you don't believe in God or gods are you 100% certain there is no God(s)? 90%, 70%?

If you believe in more than one God are there some gods you don't believe in? How certain that these gods you don't believe in don't exist?

What do you base this percentage of non-belief on?
I believe in God 51%, 51% is based on how strong my hunch is, 49% is based on there being no reliable evidence for God that I know of.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Im atheist and out the other side... ;-). I am 100% certain no gods exist.

I base it on all the things in this universe, on this world, in this life that have no need for a god or gods. There are many evidences that i believe show no god exists.
And I believe God is, because I don't think anything would exist without Him. Everything we see is evidence for God, especially life.
 

Niatero

*banned*
But there are just so many, with so many different combinations of properties, and no constrictions of what can be called a god, that it is impossible to logically refute all gods.
^ This ^ Also, sometimes the meaning keeps shifting back and forth to dodge the bullet.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
we can not make defacto assertions about the existence of (X)

I can if no evidence for (x) exists and factors of life indicate that (x) does not exist.

without defining what (X) is

Thousands of years and still no coherent definition... Interesting eh?

So you realize that you have this God Power

Eh?

A thought manifesting itself into physical reality -- Proof

Eh?

see .. I knew you have God like power

Eh?

Once defined -

See my second comment

You are of course entitled to you beliefs, the mind is a wonderful tool.
 

chinu

chinu
Im atheist and out the other side... ;-). I am 100% certain no gods exist.

I base it on all the things in this universe, on this world, in this life that have no need for a god or gods. There are many evidences that i believe show no god exists.
If you can tell that who created the universe that is all around you, I will admit that you are 100% certain.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
If you can tell that who created the universe that is all around you, I will admit that you are 100% certain.

Can you? Or is it a case of "i don't know so i guess my god did it ... Not any of the other imagined creator gods of course, just mine"

I do know of 32 hypothesis on how the universe came into existence, all are based on either mathematics or on observed phenomena in this universe. Not one says god did it.
 

chinu

chinu
I do know of 32 hypothesis on how the universe came into existence, all are based on either mathematics or on observed phenomena in this universe. Not one says god did it.
Today you know of 32 hypothesis, tomorrow the number 32 will increase to 41, or 50, or more. Why you doubt all these hypothesis ?
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Is there any room in your belief to doubt God exists?
Or do you believe in God with 100% certainty?

If you're agnostic does that mean you believe there is a 50% chance God exists and a 50% chance he doesn't?

If you don't believe in God or gods are you 100% certain there is no God(s)? 90%, 70%?

If you believe in more than one God are there some gods you don't believe in? How certain that these gods you don't believe in don't exist?

What do you base this percentage of non-belief on?

I do not like dealing in odds, since that is black box science; whims of the gods. The statistical math is relatively new, but the whims of the gods approach is very ancient. I am more of a rationalist; Age of Reason, that left behind the whims of the gods. I am not sure why so much of science regressed back to before the age of reason. The Age of Enlightenment went back to the age of black box darkness using a math oracle like a flashlight. You can take an Atheist out of religion but not religion out of an Atheist.

My best logical reason; light, for God has to do with the 2nd law of thermodynamics, which states that the entropy of the universe has to increase. Science has many theories, but very few laws. Laws count the most, with theories a dime a dozen. Logically, if you can use a law of science, to explain God, it should count as much as a dozen theories.

In the free energy equation G=H-TS, where G is the free energy, H is the enthalpy or internal energy, T is the temperature in degrees Kelvin, and S is the entropy, the 2nd law by stating that the entropy of S of the universe has to increase, means that the free energy of the universe is decreasing with time. The minus sign means as S gets bigger, G gets smaller; more S means less G. The 2nd law has S leading the universe to the future. Both G and H, as well as T, decrease over time. The second law should be the first law.

The 2nd law implies, that our material universe is bleeding free energy, into entropy increase; 2nd law. Since energy is being conserved; energy conservation law, and energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can only change form, if the material universe of the BB is bleeding free energy but also conserving it, where is this lost energy going? Where is it being stored and in what form?

We can recycle the energy trapped as entropy increases; we can lower entropy, but this costs more energy do than we can get back. In essence, the universe has to stockpile this ever increasing lost energy, at the expense of our material universe. In a sense, a secondary entropic based energy realm is being formed, as the BB universe moves forward in time. The red shift of the universe, where photons are type of permanent energy, by becoming longer and longer wavelengths, means they have less and less energy value. The expanding universe is a natural artifact of this permanent lost energy, into the entropic realm.

Entropy increase is important to life compared to inanimate states like rocks; evolution. Cells generated a lot of entropy increase due to metabolism breaking down food material into smaller materials; water and gases. The rock, on the other hand reaches steady state and stops in time. Life is special for the 2nd law entropic economy. Neurons, which are connected to the brain and consciousness generate the most entropy; extensive wiring, of all the cells of the body. Both the body and the brain, by generating increasing entropy, are sending lost energy to the conservation realm, that cannot be net recycled by the material universe; according to the second law of thermodynamics.

The term entropy was first coined in the 18th century during the development of steam engines. When they did tests, energy was always missing that could not be accounted for. This lost energy; lost to the universe, was coined entropy. It is real and can be measured. In Chemical Engineering, where you scale chemical processes you need to take into account lost energy or else your chemical process will become a piece of crap.

In engineering and chemistry, entropy is considered a state variable, meaning for any given state of matter, like water at 25C and 1 atmosphere pressure, has a specific measurable value of entropy. This value does not change no matter how you reach that state. Entropy is like a specific fingerprint for any state of matter; an information stamp at the quantum level.

It is very possible that the lost and growing pool of entropic energy storage, as defined by the 2nd law, is the information data of all the material states that once were, since the BB. The ancients called this the soul; universel, earth, animal and humans.

Our memory fires neurons and as we mature, the brain and body increase entropy over time; evolving entropic states. It is very likely these are all recorded and stored in a different type of Cloud Storage; Universal Entropy State Cloud; quantum realm via energy conservation. This is not about throwing dice and forming a consensus in the black box of a casino, but this is about following a solid logic stemming from an accepted Law of science and engineering. Engineering is the ultimate test of science, since it needs to push any theory beyond the lab and test tubes, into scaled reality; ultimate tests of science. Dice and cards science does not scale this well, compared to rational science and engineering using the 2nd law.

I have given physics some tools to help explore this; independent space and independent time. They seem afraid of the light, due to living so long in the black box darkness groping, close to the black box walls, like blind men.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Can you? Or is it a case of "i don't know so i guess my god did it ... Not any of the other imagined creator gods of course, just mine"

I do know of 32 hypothesis on how the universe came into existence, all are based on either mathematics or on observed phenomena in this universe. Not one says god did it.
So at number 33, it isn’t that there is any hypothesis that says God did it, but rather you choose to interpret what you see without a God possibility,.

And you still can’t say which one it is.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
So at number 33, it isn’t that there is any hypothesis that says God did it, but rather you choose to interpret what you see without a God possibility,.
In science, a hypothesis is a proposed explanation for a set of phenomena that is waiting to be tested, based on the predictions it makes.
That's why "goddidit" isn't a hypothesis.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
In science, a hypothesis is a proposed explanation for a set of phenomena that is waiting to be tested, based on the predictions it makes.
That's why "goddidit" isn't a hypothesis.
So, we find a flaw in the approach of science.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Obviously, I don’t know what I would do if the Bible wasn’t around. Probably be clueless for the most part. That’s why I believe God gave and has preserved His revealed written Word…so humanity wouldn’t be ignorant.

So then you also believe there is no evidence outside of the Bible of a God existing?

How do you think this information was revealed to the writers of the Bible? Dreams? Visions? Direct communication with God?

Some folks believed they have had a direct experience with God. Relying more on their own experience than what is in the Bible.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Absolutely… Jesus was fully male.

So I imagine you wouldn't be interested in this book?

1713874515312.jpeg
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Is there any room in your belief to doubt God exists?
Or do you believe in God with 100% certainty?

If you're agnostic does that mean you believe there is a 50% chance God exists and a 50% chance he doesn't?

If you don't believe in God or gods are you 100% certain there is no God(s)? 90%, 70%?

If you believe in more than one God are there some gods you don't believe in? How certain that these gods you don't believe in don't exist?

What do you base this percentage of non-belief on?
I do believe in God. I also believe that man's religions are our fumbling attempts to understand the creator. I also believe that we fall agonizingly short in our efforts.
 
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