How much do we know. Part 2

[TagliatelliMonster]

Definition of randomness | Dictionary.com

Definition of complexity | Dictionary.com

That doesn't answer my question of what you meant by them in context of the statement you used them in at all.

YOU typed that sentence. I'ld expect that you knew what you meant by the statement.
Why does it seem so hard for you to clarify?

 

[leov]

You se

That doesn't answer my question of what you meant by them in context of the statement you used them in at all.

YOU typed that sentence. I'ld expect that you knew what you meant by the statement.
Why does it seem so hard for you to clarify?

Creation is planned starting from smallest elementary particle, evolution is floating having no base...

 

[shmogie]

Curious how, while you don't know anything about the guy, you feel like you can compare him to someone else.
I can't help but wonder on what you base the comparision then, considering you don't know the first thing about the dude....



And a very succesfull scientific career.

I am not comparing him to anyone else, I can´t, I have never heard of him. Dawkins on the other hand I have seen via video, and read. Independent of any comparison with anyone else, Dawkins has a big mouth.

Clear now ?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You se
Creation is planned starting from smallest elementary particle, evolution is floating having no base...

Dude, you're dancing all around.

Can't you just clarify your statement?
What is "random" in evolution in your opinion and why is it a problem?
What is "complex" in evolution in your opinion and why is it a problem?

Repeating your bare assertions, or piling on more bare assertions, is not going to clarify anything.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I am not comparing him to anyone else, I can´t, I have never heard of him. Dawkins on the other hand I have seen via video, and read. Independent of any comparison with anyone else, Dawkins has a big mouth.

Clear now ?

Not really, no.

In any case. Dawkins may have a big mouth. He nevertheless also has a very succesfull scientific carreer. He may have a big mouth. The thing is, he also knows what he is talking about.

 

[leov]

Dude, you're dancing all around.

Can't you just clarify your statement?
What is "random" in evolution in your opinion and why is it a problem?
What is "complex" in evolution in your opinion and why is it a problem?

Repeating your bare assertions, or piling on more bare assertions, is not going to clarify anything.

E.g. Mutations are random

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

E.g. Mutations are random

Ok, thank you.

Now for the second part of the question, why is that a problem in your opinion?

 

[leov]

Ok, thank you.

Now, why is that a problem in your opinion?

I chse better more streamline explanation which offers all the stages I was looking for - planned intended creation by Living Supreme Consciousness.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I chse better more streamline explanation which offers all the stages I was looking for - planned intended creation by Living Supreme Consciousness.

You forgot to explain what you find problematic about random mutations.
You're jumping the gun unto what you "prefer" to believe.

We haven't even gotten to what you find problematic about mainstream accepted biology.

So, why are mutations that are random (with respect to fitness) a problem?

 

[leov]

You forgot to explain what you find problematic about random mutations.
You're jumping the gun unto what you "prefer" to believe.

We haven't even gotten to what you find problematic about mainstream accepted biology.

So, why are mutations that are random (with respect to fitness) a problem?

It is not practical to achieve anything.

 

[ratiocinator]

It is not practical to achieve anything.

Of course it is. Mutations are random, but beneficial ones spread through populations and harmful ones die out. It's called natural selection.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It is not practical to achieve anything.

How so?

Ps: it might help if you would take a bit more time to write a reply and include a bit more detail and a bit more clarity. I'm still completely at a loss about why you think it is a problem that mutations are random with respect to fitness....

 

[leov]

How so?

Ps: it might help if you would take a bit more time to write a reply and include a bit more detail and a bit more clarity. I'm still completely at a loss about why you think it is a problem that mutations are random with respect to fitness....

When I built my house I made a plan first. I guess you need to try to reach real complexity of the task, and start with Periodic Table then organics. Streamline it. I just think that Creator explains what is much better than just Evolution. Creator + Evolution is ok with me.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When I built my house I made a plan first. I guess you need to try to reach real complexity of the task, and start with Periodic Table then organics. Streamline it. I just think that Creator explains what is much better than just Evolution. Creator + Evolution is ok with me.

You still haven't explained your objection.

Your house analogy is invalid (houses don't reproduce with random variation and aren't in a struggle to survive and aren't in competition over limited resources).

All you said so far is that you like to believe something else.

I ask again: why is mutation being random with respect to fitness, a problem for evolution theory?





You're not planning on living upto to the challenge and actually answer, are you?

 

[leov]

You still haven't explained your objection.

Your house analogy is invalid (houses don't reproduce with random variation and aren't in a struggle to survive and aren't in competition over limited resources).

All you said so far is that you like to believe something else.

I ask again: why is mutation being random with respect to fitness, a problem for evolution theory?





You're not planning on living upto to the challenge and actually answer, are you?

I think I answered the question, it is simple statistic, probability of building complex structure achieving meaningful success through thousands of steps and maintaining surviving advantage on most of those steps, I need a great faith in evolutionary process. It works right in your book, have fun.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I think I answered the question, it is simple statistic, probability of building complex structure achieving meaningful success through thousands of steps and maintaining surviving advantage on most of those steps, I need a great faith in evolutionary process. It works right in your book, have fun.

Thousands of steps in 3.8 billion years worth of evolution, really isn't extra ordinary.

Anyway, sounds like you are completely ignoring the roll of natural selection.
Also seriously understimating the law of big numbers.

Imagine a stable species population of 100 million individuals with a mutation rate of 50. That means every newborn has 50 brand new mutations. About the rate we humans have, btw.

A new generation of 100 million individuals is born at mutation rate 50.
In generation 1 (one), there are already 5 billion mutations in the field.

Many of these 5 billion will be past on to off spring. Which will add their own 5 billion off course. And pass the accumulation of both to their off spring. And so it goes on.

Every individual that walks around, is literally a fitness test for the genes of that individual.

Statistically and probabilisticly, it really is not a problem at all. In fact, it's an inevitability. The only thing that can stop biological evolution from occuring, is total extinction of all life.

 

[leov]

Thousands of steps in 3.8 billion years worth of evolution, really isn't extra ordinary.

Anyway, sounds like you are completely ignoring the roll of natural selection.
Also seriously understimating the law of big numbers.

Imagine a stable species population of 100 million individuals with a mutation rate of 50. That means every newborn has 50 brand new mutations. About the rate we humans have, btw.

A new generation of 100 million individuals is born at mutation rate 50.
In generation 1 (one), there are already 5 billion mutations in the field.

Many of these 5 billion will be past on to off spring. Which will add their own 5 billion off course. And pass the accumulation of both to their off spring. And so it goes on.

Every individual that walks around, is literally a fitness test for the genes of that individual.

Statistically and probabilisticly, it really is not a problem at all. In fact, it's an inevitability. The only thing that can stop biological evolution from occuring, is total extinction of all life.

I would not know, some calculate that that is way too little of time...I do not think anyone really knows.

 

[gnostic]

Well, @leov

I have reading your exchange with @TagliatelliMonster , and you do seem to like to dance around TagliatelliMonster‘s repeated requests for clarification, you instead going off topic and make more absurd and unrelated claims without even bothering to explain his original request for more detailed explanation.

Pay attention to what TagliatelliMonster is asking you.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I would not know, some calculate that that is way too little of time...

And none of them are evolutionary biologists, geneticists, paleontologists, molecular biologists,...

I do not think anyone really knows.

People who study this stuff for a living, do know.
You might want to listen to them instead of fundamentalists who can only spread misinformation, propaganda and lies.



But more importantly.... I note that you have no clue what you are talking about, as per your own admission. You can't explain why mutation being random with respect to fitness is supposedly problematic. You don't know. It's just some assertion you picked up somewhere in what are very likely creationist circles.

You might want to inform yourself on the actual science, before trying to argue against it.