How materialists find meaning in life

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I would like to talk about materialism which is the whole notion held by many scientists. It is the whole idea that the brain produces consciousness and that once that dies out, you forever remain dead. There is no God and no afterlife. They say that one can have much meaning in their lives with no need for a belief in a god and an afterlife.

I don't see it that way at all. When I look at my mother or any other innocent person whom I admire and love, I see a person. I see a soul that can never be reduced to mere biology. It is something eternal so that when the biology dies off, the soul can live on and become one with the universe for all eternity.

But the very fact that this is not the case since I myself am a materialist, then I see the very relationship I have with my family and all others as being reduced to nothing more than biology. It doesn't matter what purpose we have or who we are in life. This is a short life that only reduces us all to nothing in the end and nothing more than biology.

So I see no reason to help others, care for others, or anything since that is all they are. Why not let everyone rot away since that is all they are in the first place? They are all nothing more than decaying meat (biology). The only thing that makes you somebody is living on forever. As long as you are forever dead, then you are literally nobody at all since you are gone for good.

So the only way to be the greatest person in life is living on forever since the amount of "somebody" lasts for all eternity. But the fact that you are somebody only for a temporary amount of time in this life, then that makes you nowhere near as much as a person.

Death is a sacrifice. But one should never sacrifice his/herself if it means being dead for all eternity even if it is for others. This is because you have reduced yourself to nothing at all in the end. A person who just wastes themselves away like that is literally nothing in my eyes. I will look at this person as nothing since that is who they really are. They made themselves nothing in the end. Sure, it might of been for others and making the world a better place. So these things are all good. But as for the person themselves, I will look at him/her as being nothing and will have utter scorn toward him/her.

So, in conclusion, it is all about never dying and living on forever. The preservation of the self since that is the only thing that makes you somebody. Therefore, for me, life is all about living in eternal bliss, no suffering, and just enjoying my life and hobbies for all eternity and helping others who also live such lives. If such a life existed, then the relationship with my family and everything else would have the greatest joy and meaning since it is all now in a different context.

It is in the context of not being reduced to mere biology that will forever decay in the end and not being hopelessly beaten down by all the suffering in this life. Life, to me, is all about being UP. That is, living on forever, being up and running in a really good mood, and having no suffering and no depression in life beating you down. As long as you are DOWN in life in which you have much suffering only to forever die in the end, then that is both a lesser person and a lesser life.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Do you enjoy movies?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Do you enjoy movies?

I would much rather talk about what I've written in regards to how I define "somebody." That is, again, living on forever.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I would much rather talk about what I've written in regards to how I define "somebody." That is, again, living on forever.

It's relevant, trust me - I'm going somewhere with it. So, do you enjoy movies?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

It's relevant, trust me - I'm going somewhere with it. So, do you enjoy movies?

Yes.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Yes.

And why do you enjoy movies? You realise that movies end, right?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

And why do you enjoy movies? You realise that movies end, right?

Yes, but unlike movies which end, I am fine with them ending since they are not all there is to life. They aren't all that important. As for me as a person though, that is a whole different story. An innocent human being is someone very special and important. Such a person should never be reduced to mere biology and should never just forever die in the end.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Yes, but unlike movies which end, I am fine with them ending since they are not all there is to life.

What difference does that make? Your argument is essentially "Life is less meaningful (if not entirely meaningless) if it is finite". If this isn't true for films, why is it true for life?

They aren't all that important. As for me as a person though, that is a whole different story. An innocent human being is someone very special and important. Such a person should never be reduced to mere biology and should never just forever die in the end.

Again, what difference does it make if you "reduce something to mere biology" or "reduce something to mere spirituality"? What you are made of is what you are made of. Nothing has to be "reduced" to anything. Whether or not your life is finite has nothing to do with meaning or how "special" you are, and the biological vs. spiritual has no intrinsic difference in value. You merely assign it that value for completely arbitrary reasons. Life is no less "reduced" by a materialistic view that sees life as the result of physical processes than a "spiritual" view that asserts some inherent, supernatural quality to life. Neither of them indicate any kind of special value over the other. Why do you assume it must?

 

[BSM1]

And why do you enjoy movies? You realise that movies end, right?

Not taking sides, but if there were no way to remember the movie, or to feel enjoyment after seeing the flick, or relate the details to another, or possibly re-watch the film at a later date what would be the point of wasting a couple hours smelling stale popcorn?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Not taking sides, but if there were no way to remember the movie, or to feel enjoyment after seeing the flick, or relate the details to another, or possibly re-watch the film at a later date what would be the point of wasting a couple hours smelling stale popcorn?

Literally every other aspect of a film that gives you enjoyment?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

What difference does that make? Your argument is essentially "Life is less meaningful (if not entirely meaningless) if it is finite". If this isn't true for films, why is it true for life?


Again, what difference does it make if you "reduce something to mere biology" or "reduce something to mere spirituality"? What you are made of is what you are made of. Nothing has to be "reduced" to anything. Whether or not your life is finite has nothing to do with meaning or how "special" you are, and the biological vs. spiritual has no intrinsic difference in value. You merely assign it that value for completely arbitrary reasons. Life is no less "reduced" by a materialistic view that sees life as the result of physical processes than a "spiritual" view that asserts some inherent, supernatural quality to life. Neither of them indicate any kind of special value over the other. Why do you assume it must?

Because it is like I have written before, once you are gone, you are nobody at all anymore. The amount of "somebody" is only finite. So the only way to become more of a somebody (that is, the greatest person you can possibly be), then that would mean living on forever since you are somebody for all eternity. But for a person to be wasted away in the end makes me see them as not much of a person at all.

 

[BSM1]

Literally every other aspect of a film that gives you enjoyment?

???

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Because it is like I have written before, once you are gone, you are nobody at all anymore.

Why does that make the period in which you are alive any less meaningful? You didn't exist for around 1.4 billion years prior to your birth, so why does the notion of no longer existing after you die make life any less meaningful?

The amount of "somebody" is only finite. So the only way to become more of a somebody (that is, the greatest person you can possibly be), then that would mean living on forever since you are somebody for all eternity. But for a person to be wasted away in the end makes me see them as not much of a person at all.

None of this makes any real sense. You can still be the greatest person you can possibly be within a finite time, and living forever doesn't make you any more intrinsically likely to become any better.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Why does that make the period in which you are alive any less meaningful? You didn't exist for around 1.4 billion years prior to your birth, so why does the notion of no longer existing after you die make life any less meaningful?


None of this makes any real sense. You can still be the greatest person you can possibly be within a finite time, and living forever doesn't make you any more intrinsically likely to become any better.

Even if you can be the greatest person now, all of that is reduced to nothing in the end which makes you nothing as a person in the end. No one should ever be reduced to nothing. We are human beings here and we should not be mere biology. We should be more than just our biology and no human being should ever be reduced to nothing.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Even if you can be the greatest person now, all of that is reduced to nothing in the end which makes you nothing as a person in the end.

Then why is being the greatest person even a factor in determining the worth of life? If you can be the greatest, even if your life is finite, then why is it a factor?

No one should ever be reduced to nothing.

So what were you before you were born?

We are human beings here and we should not be mere biology. We should be more than just our biology and no human being should ever be reduced to nothing.

How is this any different to saying "We are human beings here and we should not mere spirits. We should be more than just our spirits."? How do you identify the intrinsic value of biology/finite vs. the intrinsic value of spirit/infinite? What makes life being a biological process a "reduction"?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Then why is being the greatest person even a factor in determining the worth of life? If you can be the greatest, even if your life is finite, then why is it a factor?

Because a person is everything to me. When I look at my mother, she is the greatest person to me. Someone as important as my mother and myself should never fade away. It is more than worthy of living on forever.

So what were you before you were born?

There was no "me" ever there. But now that I am somebody, it is expected that I live forever since I am a vital human being just like my mother and other innocent people.

How is this any different to saying "We are human beings here and we should not mere spirits. We should be more than just our spirits."? How do you identify the intrinsic value of biology/finite vs. the intrinsic value of spirit/infinite? What makes life being a biological process a "reduction"?

I don't see how being biology can be greater than being a spirit. If you are a spirit in the afterlife, then you can do all that and much more with your spirit form than your biological form. Furthermore, it is immortal and you can choose to have no more suffering and to be purely blissful for all eternity if you wanted to.

 

[Laika]

I don't see it that way at all. When I look at my mother or any other innocent person whom I admire and love, I see a person. I see a soul that can never be reduced to mere biology. It is something eternal so that when the biology dies off, the soul can live on and become one with the universe for all eternity.

Whilst some interpretations of materialism can lead to nihilism (eliminative materialism) that is not universally true for all forms of materialism. The problem is when a materialist treats consciousness as something that does not exist.

Materialism is often closely associated with hedonism, since it is the "physical" pleasures that take precedence over the "non-physical" commandments of god/religious belief. Whilst religious people treat physical pleasure as a "sin", materialists are often accused of indulging in excess such as the seven deadly sins; pride, greed, lust envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth. materialism historically also has links with libertinism. Whilst somewhat unfair, the free, unhibited pursuit of pleasure is generally consistent with materialism. life is generally "meaningful" in the extent to which it is pleasurable.

Where the problems start is to do with egotism. The first problem is that if morality does not "objectively" exist in god, it can produce extreme forms of subjectivity. The Marquis De Sade is one example; in arguing that pleasure is the measure of "good", if humans derive pleasure for inflicting pain and suffering on others, doesn't that mean that sadism is morally "good"? The second major problem is how materialists respond to death. If "pleasure" is the measure of good, pleasure comes from consciousness and does not survive after death and death is inevitable- does it not follow that death makes all the pleasures in life meaningless or redundent?

Marxists are materialists and would assert the existence of a scientific and objectively valid morality derived from the socio-economic relationships between people. It should be emphasised that it is not exclusively so and they do include biological aspects in their beliefs (including psychological hedonism). In terms of dealing with death, they believed that because society objectively exists, we can experience a form of "immortality" and "transcend" our own ego and individual insginificance by our membership of humanity.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I would like to talk about materialism which is the whole notion held by many scientists. It is the whole idea that the brain produces consciousness and that once that dies out, you forever remain dead. There is no God and no afterlife. They say that one can have much meaning in their lives with no need for a belief in a god and an afterlife.

I don't see it that way at all. When I look at my mother or any other innocent person whom I admire and love, I see a person. I see a soul that can never be reduced to mere biology. It is something eternal so that when the biology dies off, the soul can live on and become one with the universe for all eternity.

But the very fact that this is not the case since I myself am a materialist, then I see the very relationship I have with my family and all others as being reduced to nothing more than biology. It doesn't matter what purpose we have or who we are in life. This is a short life that only reduces us all to nothing in the end and nothing more than biology.

So I see no reason to help others, care for others, or anything since that is all they are. Why not let everyone rot away since that is all they are in the first place? They are all nothing more than decaying meat (biology). The only thing that makes you somebody is living on forever. As long as you are forever dead, then you are literally nobody at all since you are gone for good.

So the only way to be the greatest person in life is living on forever since the amount of "somebody" lasts for all eternity. But the fact that you are somebody only for a temporary amount of time in this life, then that makes you nowhere near as much as a person.

Death is a sacrifice. But one should never sacrifice his/herself if it means being dead for all eternity even if it is for others. This is because you have reduced yourself to nothing at all in the end. A person who just wastes themselves away like that is literally nothing in my eyes. I will look at this person as nothing since that is who they really are. They made themselves nothing in the end. Sure, it might of been for others and making the world a better place. So these things are all good. But as for the person themselves, I will look at him/her as being nothing and will have utter scorn toward him/her.

So, in conclusion, it is all about never dying and living on forever. The preservation of the self since that is the only thing that makes you somebody. Therefore, for me, life is all about living in eternal bliss, no suffering, and just enjoying my life and hobbies for all eternity and helping others who also live such lives. If such a life existed, then the relationship with my family and everything else would have the greatest joy and meaning since it is all now in a different context.

It is in the context of not being reduced to mere biology that will forever decay in the end and not being hopelessly beaten down by all the suffering in this life. Life, to me, is all about being UP. That is, living on forever, being up and running in a really good mood, and having no suffering and no depression in life beating you down. As long as you are DOWN in life in which you have much suffering only to forever die in the end, then that is both a lesser person and a lesser life.

I wouldnt consider myself a meteralist if I went by definitions here in RF. However, natualist sounds more appropriate. We are depended on natual not supernatual causes to get us through life.

What I find is a lot of people have trouble with the term and concept of death. A lot of people want to live forever in one way or another but I feel there is more to live than the hope to live forever.

If you are comfortable with dying (thats it. Poof. You gone.) You live life as though you have no other. You appreciatw what you have..say children, a spouse, a hit car, whatever. Youre not bouncing from one religion to the next trying to find a safety net for this life or the next.

We arent mere biology And we will die. It is okay to want to live forever and believe theres an afterlife. I also feel if you are nit comfortable with surprises, you may be surprised there is no afterlife.

Think about it. If our souls are meant to live forever, there is no such thing as birth. We would be in transition. Yet, we have no knowledge of our previous life and we have no knowledge after we die. Why is that?

We werent alive. No brain. No thoughts. Nothing to adopt a belief of an afterlife. Its all from the mind. What we believe etc how it influences us is interpreted mentally.

For example, I believe my family spirits exist. Yet, if I told someone else theyd probably look at me nuts.

Yet, if I told them the moon exists. They look at me and say "duuh".

Its personal. Psychological and based on personal interpretation of events and motives that in itself have nothing to do with us.

Have you noticed the afterlife has many different attributes? The moon is a rock (etc) both people on either side of the world interprets the rock having the same charatoristics

Why not heaven?

How does a materalist find meaning in life? By focusing on THIS life not hoping for the next. This life is what we know. I personally feel my goal is to be comfortable with surprises. Be comfortable that when I die, thats it.

Is it really it? No. I live in my family, my nieces and nephews (since I dont want kids). I live in my parents if I die before them. I am happy with that. I am happy that my spirit (how my love ones remember me and see me inside them) is in my loved ones who care. Who took care of me.

Thats why and how I find the meaning in life. " I " personally dont need to live for eternity for me to live in my loved ones. Thats the same when my grandmothers passed. For me. For people after me.

I cant see any religion without a high reverence for ancestors fulfilling me in this life. Thats why I have not taken myself from this life.

Its not for my benefit but for others.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Because a person is everything to me. When I look at my mother, she is the greatest person to me. Someone as important as my mother and myself should never fade away. It is more than worthy of living on forever.

Why does import require infinite existence? I'd rather like to live forever too, but that doesn't mean my life is any less meaningful or important because I don't.

There was no "me" ever there. But now that I am somebody, it is expected that I live forever since I am a vital human being just like my mother and other innocent people.

But you once did not exist. What's the difference between you prior to life and you after life? If it's so important that you exist forever, then why is it any more troubling that you won't live after death than it is that you didn't exist before your birth? Like or not, death is a return to a state you have already occupied for over 1.4 billion years.

I don't see how being biology can be greater than being a spirit.

I didn't say it was. I said there's no way to identify one as greater than the other in any intrinsic way.

If you are a spirit in the afterlife, then you can do all that and much more with your spirit form than your biological form.

Why does that make it greater?

Furthermore, it is immortal and you can choose to have no more suffering and to be purely blissful for all eternity if you wanted to.

Again, why does that make it greater. You're asserting these things but not relating them to having any actual value or explaining why one is intrinsically better than the other. What use is infinite bliss?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not taking sides, but if there were no way to remember the movie, or to feel enjoyment after seeing the flick, or relate the details to another, or possibly re-watch the film at a later date what would be the point of wasting a couple hours smelling stale popcorn?

Throw the pop corn out. But thats the purpose, to watch it that one time. Its like my brother. I finally saw him after what six years just walking through the library. Should I disregard that one experience knowing about him, I may not see him again?

Same as the movie. Probably why people watch reruns of Sapranos rather than accepting the last season has been over for couple of years. I think its how one percieves it. If in knows its a reruun and they just like it, thats fine. If one watches it as if a new episode..hm...