How does religion hold up when faced with these questions?

[Owneh]

What do you say to this?

[video=youtube;-suvkwNYSQo]

[/video]

If god/Allah/whatever is real, then we shouldn't be worshipping them, but despise them. Honestly, if you believe in god then I don't know why you'd worship them. What kind of ****ed up being would create a race and then ask them to say thanks 6 times a day, or create a world which babies die the day they are born? This world isn't evil because of humanity, although we do play a part, but the evils of humanity aren't a TOUCH on the evils of the one(s) who created this world.

If you are deeply religious, I want you to watch the video, tell me what you think or even just question it yourself.

Also, ask yourself this. If you're muslim, would you be a muslim if both of your parents were devout christians? Or the other way around? Substitute both religions to whatever, but if you deeply believe in a religion because of your parents or the people around you, why are you right in this instance but not right in the one(s) in which your influences are from a different religion?

 

[allfoak]

@Owneh
Your video is not available to those in the USA.

 

[Acim]

What do you say to this?

I say bring your A game if you are wanting to enter into a debate.

 

[Owneh]

Hello, this is a good question/


The reason 'why' one might remain a Theist, /in my instance a Tanach adherent, is that, humans have freewill. This freewill, is not compatible to a existence without these ''problems'', you are presenting. You can't have both, ie, freewill, and an existence, that does not have the problems associated with it. //On Earth/. that being said, the Deity is the creator of the worlds, now, why would you not honour the creator? You think it is a monster, but this is a matter of perspective and belief, and more than belief, as well. You have set up your atheistic or anti-theistic paradigm, as a formula, that will will never advance an good result of the equations you configure thusly. It's confirmation bias. It also lacks the obvious questions that you should be asking yourself. A theist cannot have both Theism, and your non-Theism, as well. To a theist, you are not presenting a argument that takes their beliefs into consideration. You are therefore, not presenting a accurate analysis of the question/s/ , in the first place.

The question you are asking is a setup, from the get-go. To really ask the question properly, you will need to either , //present it in a contextually accurate manner , or, state another argument..

How does free will come into children getting cancer, for example. Sure, africans being starving COULd be attributed to other humans abusing free will, but then there's also the argument that there is 4 million square miles of fertile land in africa which can't be used due to a virus spread by flies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsetse_fly#Tsetse.2C_hunger.2C_and_poverty). Free will answers why humans are evil, but natural atrocities aren't covered by that answer.

As to why we should not worship the creator; it just seems deeply vain that a being would create a world and then expect or even want them to worship him/her/it. You don't see, for example, humans creating computer programs which are then expected to worship them, it seems from my perspective that if a being was to create a world, even if the world was magnificent and perfect, and wanted their creations to worship and thank them for simple being allowed to exist, that it seems pointless, vein and to what ends and means does this accomplish?

 

[Sunstone]

I know most of you deeply religious people are brainwashed and have strongly set beliefs, but at least try and break through your wall of ignorance...

Do you get out much? Just curious.

 

[Owneh]

Do you get out much? Just curious.

Sorry, removed that part. I posted this on another forum, in which the people within it are the type to just say "i believe because I believe" yet not back it up with any logic, obviously that's not the case here, my apologies.

 

[Sunstone]

Sorry, removed that part. I posted this on another forum, in which the people within it are the type to just say "i believe because I believe" yet not back it up with any logic, obviously that's not the case here, my apologies.

No problem. Glad you edited it out.

 

[Covellite]

IMO, good believers are heroes.
No one can understand God's will.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

@Owneh, there are untold posts by hosts of members to the effect that God cannot possibly exist because of the fact of evil and suffering, and there are untold posts by hosts of members countering this contention. Furthermore, the "Problem of Evil" has been a serious focus of concern of many brilliant philosophers and theologians over a span of centuries.

Given that as a backdrop, its always amusing to see a new forum member pontificate on the topic as if s/he is offering some new insight.

 

[Owneh]

@Owneh, there are untold posts by hosts of members to the effect that God cannot possibly exist because of the fact of evil and suffering, and there are untold posts by hosts of members countering this contention. Furthermore, the "Problem of Evil" has been a serious focus of concern of many brilliant philosophers and theologians over a span of centuries.

Given that as a backdrop, its always amusing to see a new forum member pontificate on the topic as if s/he is offering some new insight.

I'm sure it's as amusing as it is unanswerable for you.

 

[George-ananda]

What do you say to this?

Criticism of Abrahamic religions is not an argument for atheism either. I think a more acceptable understanding can be found in eastern/Indian religions. That said, I think the Abrahamic religions have issues if all the dogma is analyzed to its full logical conclusions. But anyway, I believe what really matters is the quality of our hearts and minds and not dogma.

 

[lovesong]

What do you say to this?

[video=youtube;-suvkwNYSQo]

[/video]

The video isn't available in the US.

If god/Allah/whatever is real, then we shouldn't be worshipping them, but despise them. Honestly, if you believe in god then I don't know why you'd worship them. What kind of ****ed up being would create a race and then ask them to say thanks 6 times a day, or create a world which babies die the day they are born? This world isn't evil because of humanity, although we do play a part, but the evils of humanity aren't a TOUCH on the evils of the one(s) who created this world.

If you are deeply religious, I want you to watch the video, tell me what you think or even just question it yourself.

The gods I believe in did not create the world, they simply have the power to make changes within it (bring rain, bloom a flower, ect.). These ideas that you presented are one of the reasons I left Christianity. I could not believe that a loving god would send people to hell, that a father would torture his children for for an eternity for disobeying. There were many other reasons I left, but this was certainly one of them.

Also, ask yourself this. If you're muslim, would you be a muslim if both of your parents were devout christians? Or the other way around? Substitute both religions to whatever, but if you deeply believe in a religion because of your parents or the people around you, why are you right in this instance but not right in the one(s) in which your influences are from a different religion?

My parents are not the same religion as me, I found my own path.

 

[David1967]

Sorry, removed that part. I posted this on another forum, in which the people within it are the type to just say "i believe because I believe" yet not back it up with any logic, obviously that's not the case here, my apologies.

I am glad you edited your original opening statement. Addressing the people you pose the question to as "ignorant" and or "brainwashed" doesn't inspire a productive discussion. But moving on, the question regarding if you are Muslim and both your parents were Christian or vice versa would you be? Good question. I believe in God. I am Christian, but to be perfectly honest if both my parents were devout Muslim, or Hindu, or Buddhist? Well, we do tend to be a product of our upbringing. So the chances are above average that I would be inclined to be partial to the religion of my parents. Now that being said I am not a fundamentalist by any stretch of the imagination. So although I am Christian by faith, I dont believe God is pissed off at the good people of the world who are not. Thanks again for taking off the brainwashed/ ignorant part.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm sure it's as amusing as it is unanswerable for you.

The basic fault lines today are not between people with different beliefs but between people who hold these beliefs with an element of uncertainty and people who hold these beliefs with a pretense of certitude. - Peter L Berger

 

[blue taylor]

What do you say to this?

[video=youtube;-suvkwNYSQo]

[/video]

If god/Allah/whatever is real, then we shouldn't be worshipping them, but despise them. Honestly, if you believe in god then I don't know why you'd worship them. What kind of ****ed up being would create a race and then ask them to say thanks 6 times a day, or create a world which babies die the day they are born? This world isn't evil because of humanity, although we do play a part, but the evils of humanity aren't a TOUCH on the evils of the one(s) who created this world.

If you are deeply religious, I want you to watch the video, tell me what you think or even just question it yourself.

Also, ask yourself this. If you're muslim, would you be a muslim if both of your parents were devout christians? Or the other way around? Substitute both religions to whatever, but if you deeply believe in a religion because of your parents or the people around you, why are you right in this instance but not right in the one(s) in which your influences are from a different religion?

These "questions" are readily answered by deism.

 

[Thana]

What do you say to this?

If god/Allah/whatever is real, then we shouldn't be worshipping them, but despise them. Honestly, if you believe in god then I don't know why you'd worship them. What kind of ****ed up being would create a race and then ask them to say thanks 6 times a day, or create a world which babies die the day they are born? This world isn't evil because of humanity, although we do play a part, but the evils of humanity aren't a TOUCH on the evils of the one(s) who created this world.

If you are deeply religious, I want you to watch the video, tell me what you think or even just question it yourself.

Also, ask yourself this. If you're muslim, would you be a muslim if both of your parents were devout christians? Or the other way around? Substitute both religions to whatever, but if you deeply believe in a religion because of your parents or the people around you, why are you right in this instance but not right in the one(s) in which your influences are from a different religion?

I don't understand why people get so upset about dead babies. Like life is some great prize, huh? Sure it's got it's moments, but that's about it. Death is not evil, life is not evil, animals are not evil, nature is not evil, but humans? We came up with the concept after all.

And we're all indoctrinated, every single one of us. Where do you think you got the idea that death is bad? You didn't come up with that on your own, I assure you.

 

[David1967]

I don't understand why people get so upset about dead babies. Like life is some great prize, huh? Sure it's got it's moments, but that's about it. Death is not evil, life is not evil, animals are not evil, nature is not evil, but humans? We came up with the concept after all.

And we're all indoctrinated, every single one of us. Where do you think you got the idea that death is bad? You didn't come up with that on your own, I assure you.

You seriously don't understand why people get upset about dead babies? Just talk to a parent who has suffered that loss and just maybe....

 

[Owneh]

I don't understand why people get so upset about dead babies. Like life is some great prize, huh? Sure it's got it's moments, but that's about it. Death is not evil, life is not evil, animals are not evil, nature is not evil, but humans? We came up with the concept after all.

And we're all indoctrinated, every single one of us. Where do you think you got the idea that death is bad? You didn't come up with that on your own, I assure you.

Death is bad because of the people who are deeply saddened around the dead child for example. Sure, it may not be terrible for the baby if it goes for heaven, but for the people around thw baby, the parents ect, the misery brought upon them of no fault of their own is what makes it bad.

 

[Thana]

Death is bad because of the people who are deeply saddened around the dead child for example. Sure, it may not be terrible for the baby if it goes for heaven, but for the people around thw baby, the parents ect, the misery brought upon them of no fault of their own is what makes it bad.

Death is inevitable, it happens to us all. And it is only sad because we are selfish. You don't grieve because they are gone, you grieve because they are gone from you.

Death itself is not evil and it is not bad. It just is.

 

[McBell]

Death is inevitable, it happens to us all. And it is only sad because we are selfish. You don't grieve because they are gone, you grieve because they are gone from you.

Death itself is not evil and it is not bad. It just is.

A funeral is not for the one who died.
The funeral is for the living.