How Do You Understand The Gospel?

[BilliardsBall]

Are you going to Heaven?

Why?

Are you perfect?

No one’s perfect. We’ve got a problem, don’t we? For which there is only one solution.

**********

Jesus Christ has done six vital things for us, took our sin, our guilt, our shame, received our punishment.

He died on the cross to pay for our sin and He rose from the dead forever.

There’s only one way that He tells us to go to Heaven, to place our trust in Christ, to trust in what He did: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish in Hell but have eternal life in Heaven."

Just like we trust a bus driver to take us without our effort to a destination, we trust in Christ, and know assuredly we are going to Heaven.

Would you like to place your trust in Christ right now? (If you were to talk to God, what would you say to Him?)

**********

Here's how I have been taught to understand the gospel/good news of salvation from Jesus. Does this match your understanding? Why or why not?

 

[atpollard]

Yup.
That is roughly what I was taught and read for myself.

... The hard part comes when you discuss who gets on the bus.
(Fortunately, I am only called to have an opinion on the hard part ... God gets to make the actual decision about that.)

 

[jeager106]

What makes the OP feel the righteous are going someplace else?
Why does the OP and most Christians believe the righteous go to heaven?
Are the Gospels being understood correctly or is going to heaven a myth?
The bible says: “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.”—Matthew 5:5.
Do we not pray that God’s will take place “as in heaven, also upon earth”? (Matthew 6:9, 10) In reality, one of two destinies awaits the righteous. A minority will rule in heaven with Christ, but the majority will live forever on earth.—Revelation 5:10.

We use what is commonly called "the Lords prayer" and ask that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
In so praying why do Christains believe we go someplace else when we supplicate that God's will be done on
earth as it is in heaven.
Why would God create an earth with all the wonderful possibilities just to righteous could go someplace
else of all eternity?
Is this heavenly eternal life a corruption of scripture created when Constintine organized a catholic bible?
Note: catholic here means universal, not the Catholic church.

 

[atpollard]

What makes the OP feel the righteous are going someplace else?
Why does the OP and most Christians believe the righteous go to heaven?
Are the Gospels being understood correctly or is going to heaven a myth?
The bible says: “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.”—Matthew 5:5.
Do we not pray that God’s will take place “as in heaven, also upon earth”? (Matthew 6:9, 10) In reality, one of two destinies awaits the righteous. A minority will rule in heaven with Christ, but the majority will live forever on earth.—Revelation 5:10.

We use what is commonly called "the Lords prayer" and ask that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
In so praying why do Christains believe we go someplace else when we supplicate that God's will be done on
earth as it is in heaven.
Why would God create an earth with all the wonderful possibilities just to righteous could go someplace
else of all eternity?
Is this heavenly eternal life a corruption of scripture created when Constintine organized a catholic bible?
Note: catholic here means universal, not the Catholic church.

I can't answer for the OP, but you later open it to all Christians, so:

Revelation 21
1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”fn for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’fn or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadiafn in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubitsfn thick.fn 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.fn 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.

22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Rev 21:1 says the old heaven and earth are gone and a new heaven and earth are created.
Then it describes a holy city descending where God lives with some people and a lake of fire (second death) for other people.
It sounds to me like Heaven and Earth sort of merge (where God lives is heaven) and people land in one of two places.
... but that is just a first blush reading of it. I trust God to make those sort of decisions in the end. Whatever He decides, I am good with that.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

please quote verses that specifically use the word "heaven" and say that people are going there.

 

[jeager106]

please quote verses that specifically use the word "heaven" and say that people are going there.

That is quite a request. May I suggest you Google that and tell us what you find?
Sounded like a great idea so I did it.

Bible Verses About Heaven: 15 Scripture Quotes

Just one of many links.

Heaven dosen't necessarily mean a place above the earth, sometimes the word is used in the place of the word God.
A state of being eternally in the presence ofGod after death:the everlasting happiness with God that we call heaven
A quote from:
heaven - definition of heaven in English from the Oxford dictionary

Many Christian denominations teach that one day, after God wipes away sin and unrighteousness from the earth
that the earth and heaven will be one and the same.
Frankly I don't know. If I did I'd become a t-v preacher and get rich.

 

[JayJayDee]

Are you going to Heaven?

Why?

Are you perfect?

No one’s perfect. We’ve got a problem, don’t we? For which there is only one solution.

Well, actually there is another solution..... one that is overlooked by the churches. We were never designed to go to heaven in the first place. In fact if Adam had remained obedient and not eaten of the forbidden fruit, there never would have been any need of a savior to come and offer his life to rescue Adam's children. That means no kingdom would have been necessary and hence no humans in heaven. Do the math.

Jesus Christ has done six vital things for us, took our sin, our guilt, our shame, received our punishment.

He died on the cross to pay for our sin and He rose from the dead forever.

He did indeed do all those things. But it wasn't so that all good Christians could go to heaven.....only the "chosen ones" with "the heavenly calling" will have that privilege. (Heb 3:1)

The kingdom that Jesus taught us to pray for is a heavenly government with the sole purpose of reconciling fallen humanity back into a peaceful relationship with their Creator. Alienated by sin, Jesus came to pay a ransom for them, securing their release and making forgiveness possible.

There’s only one way that He tells us to go to Heaven, to place our trust in Christ, to trust in what He did: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish in Hell but have eternal life in Heaven."

Actually that scripture doesn't mention hell...that is a bad translation.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life." (NASB, ESV, NKJV)

"Perish" means being dead, not suffering eternally. If I said five people perished in a house fire, I don't mean that they are suffering in hell.

The opposite of everlasting life is everlasting death.

Just like we trust a bus driver to take us without our effort to a destination, we trust in Christ, and know assuredly we are going to Heaven.

Christ will take his anointed ones to heaven, but not all Christians are anointed for heavenly life. Keeping in mind that all of the first Christians were of that number, we can misconstrue what it means for the vast majority of mankind, both the living and the dead. Since only Christ's disciples were even offered heavenly life, it means that all pre-Christian servants of God got no invitation or anointing. Jews had no notion of going to heaven, but believed that Messiah's kingdom would be right here on earth. They were right. A select "few" (chosen by God himself) will experience the "first resurrection" to heaven and rule with their Lord. (Rev 20:6)

The majority of mankind who lived and died before and after that number were sealed, have the hope of being ruled by them from heaven. This is what the apostle John said when he experienced his Revelation.

Rev 21:1-5...."Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.” (NKJV)

Would you like to place your trust in Christ right now? (If you were to talk to God, what would you say to Him?)

I have my trust in Christ completely as God's appointed King. I worship the same God that Jesus worshipped....I pray to the same God that he did. I trust that he and his anointed will be the very best rulers possible, bringing fallen humanity back to the conditions of Eden, where he placed then in the beginning.

Here's how I have been taught to understand the gospel/good news of salvation from Jesus. Does this match your understanding? Why or why not?

That is also how I was taught when I was growing up in Christendom....but I have studied the Bible now and have a completely different view of human life. Earth was meant to be our permanent home and Christ's sacrifice gave us back what Adam lost.....perfect sinless life in paradise on earth.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Thanks jeager106. I looked at the verses in the reference. None specifically says people go to heaven.
Matthew 18:10 says that angels see the face of my Father who is in Heaven
John 14:2 says in my Father's house are many rooms - does not use the word heaven
Phillipians 3:20 says our citizenship is in heaven - may be a citizen of China and never go there
Kings 8:30 is talking to God and says listen in heaven, your dwelling place
Since "going to heaven" is probably the single most important belief in many religions you would think there would be clear Bible verses that talk about it.. There is not one verse that says anything like King David went to heaven, or Moses is in heaven or I will take you to heaven, or you are going to heaven.
So if anyone has that verse that uses the word heaven and says y\ so I am still looking for the proof verse thar says anyone is in or went to or is going to heaven.people go there, please quote it for me. Actually there is a verse the says no man has ascended into heaven.

 

[Desert Snake]

Are you going to Heaven?

Why?

Are you perfect?

No one’s perfect. We’ve got a problem, don’t we? For which there is only one solution.

**********

Jesus Christ has done six vital things for us, took our sin, our guilt, our shame, received our punishment.

He died on the cross to pay for our sin and He rose from the dead forever.

There’s only one way that He tells us to go to Heaven, to place our trust in Christ, to trust in what He did: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish in Hell but have eternal life in Heaven."

Just like we trust a bus driver to take us without our effort to a destination, we trust in Christ, and know assuredly we are going to Heaven.

Would you like to place your trust in Christ right now? (If you were to talk to God, what would you say to Him?)

**********

Here's how I have been taught to understand the gospel/good news of salvation from Jesus. Does this match your understanding? Why or why not?

My understanding is that Jesu offers the fullness of the Covenant paradigm. In a sense, this is outside ''christianity'', or the traditions within Christianity. Jesu baptizes us, hopefully, with our adherence to Him. That is the primary goal, of Xians, imo. This is radically outside the norm of many professed xians opinions, which to me signifies a lot of problems with interpretation, and within the church itself.

 

[BilliardsBall]

All,

My question was prefaced with:

Here's how I have been taught to understand the gospel/good news of salvation from Jesus.

If you don't believe in Hell, you are saying you are saved from annihilation, is that it? If so, yes, you understand salvation vastly differently from the majority of born again believers for the past millennia. That's your prerogative. But how can you also say believers don't go to Heaven?

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. -- Revelation 3:20-21

"Heaven is my THRONE, and the Earth, my FOOTSTOOL." - Isaiah 66:1

Praise Jesus!

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

many verses hint at or suggest people may go to heaven. my question is that this is such a major belief that there should be very clear verses that say this"sit with me on my throne" still does not specifically use the word heaven. I am looking for the one "smoking gun" that uses the word heaven and says people will or have gone there. what about that verse that says no man has ascended into heaven? that seems pretty clear and uses the word heaven. where is the verse that clearly says people go there instead of saying no man has gone there?

 

[BilliardsBall]

many verses hint at or suggest people may go to heaven. my question is that this is such a major belief that there should be very clear verses that say this"sit with me on my throne" still does not specifically use the word heaven. I am looking for the one "smoking gun" that uses the word heaven and says people will or have gone there. what about that verse that says no man has ascended into heaven? that seems pretty clear and uses the word heaven. where is the verse that clearly says people go there instead of saying no man has gone there?

Part of the problem is you may lack context. Heaven comes down to the New Earth. The New Jerusalem, comes to atop the old, from Heaven so that God dwells with men. This is part of where the confusion comes in for LDS, Jehovah's Witness movement, etc. There's little need to go "up" to Heaven when God is in the body of Jesus Christ, ready to be with you here, forever.

However, the throne of God I would always say is in Heaven, and believers will--WOW O WOW--sit on it--with Jesus Christ. WOW!

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

while the throne of the Father will always be in heaven, many bekieve Jesus is coming back to earth and will set up his kingdom on earth so he will sit on a throne on earth. repeating the problem one more time - thevast majority of people hope to go to heaven someday. you would think this belief would be clearly stated in the Bible but the Bible only hints at it. no verse use the word heaven to describe a place where people go. seems like the belief in going to heaven came from some other source

 

[BilliardsBall]

while the throne of the Father will always be in heaven, many bekieve Jesus is coming back to earth and will set up his kingdom on earth so he will sit on a throne on earth. repeating the problem one more time - thevast majority of people hope to go to heaven someday. you would think this belief would be clearly stated in the Bible but the Bible only hints at it. no verse use the word heaven to describe a place where people go. seems like the belief in going to heaven came from some other source

I think you are close, there:

1. Millions (billions) believe

2. Subset reads the Bible

3. A further subset studies the Bible

4. A much smaller subset studies end times prophecy/future events/Heaven and Hell

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

i think you are on to something also

 

[BilliardsBall]

i think you are on to something also

I hope I am with the gospel itself, of course, and would like to hear more from others on this issue.

Understand also that my presentation of the gospel is startlingly different than many other presentations:

1. Jesus, according to prophecy made beforehand, died for sin, rose and was seen by witnesses

2. Our response, to be saved, is to trust, lean upon, rely upon Him

3. This is a one-time act of ours, not an ongoing dedication

4. Jesus saves

5. Not Jesus saves and...

6. Not Jesus saves but...

7. No ands or buts about it!

 

[Desert Snake]

I hope I am with the gospel itself, of course, and would like to hear more from others on this issue.

Understand also that my presentation of the gospel is startlingly different than many other presentations:

1. Jesus, according to prophecy made beforehand, died for sin, rose and was seen by witnesses

2. Our response, to be saved, is to trust, lean upon, rely upon Him

3. This is a one-time act of ours, not an ongoing dedication

4. Jesus saves

5. Not Jesus saves and...

6. Not Jesus saves but...

7. No ands or buts about it!

Bingo. that's why baptism is unnecessary.

 

[JayJayDee]

If you don't believe in Hell, you are saying you are saved from annihilation, is that it? If so, yes, you understand salvation vastly differently from the majority of born again believers for the past millennia. That's your prerogative. But how can you also say believers don't go to Heaven?

"The past millennia" is part of the period where Jesus told us about a defection or apostasy overtaking Christianity.
The beliefs that surfaced after Jesus and the apostles passed off the worldly scene cannot be relied upon to be faithful to God's word.

In Jesus' parable of "the wheat and the weeds", the devil was said to sow weeds (or tares) in the same "field" in which Jesus had sown the wheat. The plant indicated in the original text was bearded darnell, which farmers were familiar with in that part of the world. It looked like wheat in the early growing stages, hence the reason why the sower in the parable told his workers not to go and remove the weeds straight away, in case they uprooted some wheat by mistake. It was only at the "harvest time" that the difference would become obvious. The "harvest time", according to Jesus, is the end of the age....the time of his return. He sends his reapers (Angels) out to collect the weeds first. So who are the wheat and who are the weeds? Can we rely on weight of numbers to determine which is which? The answer to that is NO!

Matthew 7:13-14.....“Enter through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the way is spacious that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. How narrow is the gate and difficult the way that leads to life, and there are few who find it!" (NET)

This road is a difficult one to traverse.....and "few" are actually finding the "gate" to enter it. It also requires endurance on the difficult journey "to the end" in order to be saved. This is not a "once saved always saved" scenario. (Matt 24:13)

There will be those "many" who believe that they are Christians in good standing who will be completely rejected by Jesus when he returns as judge.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’" (NET)

Look at the claims of those who acknowledge Jesus as their "Lord"? Yet his response is scathing....he says "I never knew you". NEVER means "not ever", so these "Christians" have not been recognised by Jesus since their beginnings.
When he calls them "lawbreakers"......whose laws are they breaking? Christians should not be a criminal element breaking the laws of the land....they are breaking the laws of God. Yet by their response to Jesus, they are unaware of doing anything wrong. In their own eyes, they are fine.

The "goats" in Jesus other parable (sheep and goats) are also unaware of doing anything wrong. (Matt 25:31-46)

Christendom is the weeds of Jesus' parable. It's core teachings are not from the Bible, but adopted from pagan religious thought and introduced at a time when the apostasy was foretold. All hold to the beliefs introduced by Roman Carholicism. A trinity of gods....immortality of the human soul....hellfire of eternal torment.....the cross as a religious symbol. None of these teachings are from the Bible.

"Heaven is my THRONE, and the Earth, my FOOTSTOOL." - Isaiah 66:1

Praise Jesus!

We praise Jehovah the God and Father of Jesus Christ. We appreciate all that Jesus did in his role as Messiah, but he never asked to be worshipped. He called his Father "the only true God" and only mentioned himself as "one sent forth" by him. (John 17:3)

Jesus did not once claim to be God and he did not ever claim to share equality with his Father. He directed all worship to his God and said that he "alone" was to receive worship. (Luke 4:8)

God dwells in heaven, as his son Jesus did before he came to earth as a human. He was not God before, nor was he God after his return. In Revelation 3:12, Jesus said...."The one who conquers I will make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never depart from it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from my God, and my new name as well."

Jesus calls his Father "my God" four times in that one verse and this was after his return to heaven. Can God have a God?

Jesus was appointed as king of God's kingdom (his enthronement was seen in vision by the prophet Daniel. Dan 7:13, 14) and he prayed that with the coming of that kingdom, that God's will was going to be done "on earth as it is in heaven".

The rule of God's kingdom is going to ensure that humans have the rulership that Adam lost for his children.
Jesus came to get us back the life that our forefather, Adam lost.....not life in heaven, but the wonderful life we should have had in paradise conditions on earth. God already has many sons in heaven...he designed humans for the earth.

Some with a special "calling" will assist Christ in heaven as "joint heirs" who will be assigned as "kings and priests" to rule redeemed mankind. (Heb 3:1; Rev 20:6) These alone are "born again". But the majority of humankind will live here on earth forever as their subjects.

At Revelation 21:2-4 the apostle John wrote....."And I saw the holy city—the new Jerusalem—descending out of heaven from God, made ready like a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Look! The residence of God is among human beings. He will live among them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death will not exist any more—or mourning, or crying, or pain, for the former things have ceased to exist.” (NET)

With the 'coming' of God's kingdom (New Jerusalem) "human beings" are going to benefit by having a cleansed earth and a new righteous incorruptible rulership over them for the first time. "The former things"...the world we see crumbling at present, is going to "cease to exist". God will "live" among his worshippers in the same way as he did with Israel. He had human representatives through whom he directed his people. And his presence was indicated by the operation of his spirit in guiding and directing them in all that they did. His worship was facilitated by his priests under the authority of his High Priest, whom the Bible identifies as Jesus Christ.

Why would we expect that God's true worshippers would stand out as different at this point in time?

First of all, they are "few" in number compared with Christendom's fragmented crowds.
They have responded to God's command to "get out of Babylon the great" (Rev 18:4,5) and separated themselves from the pagan teachings and traditions of Christendom and indeed all false religion.

Secondly, they were to be "hated and persecuted" for doing what Jesus did (John 15:18-21)....exposing false teachings and preaching the good news of the established kingdom. Before the end of the present world system comes, a global preaching was to take place. (Matt 24:14) Christendom cannot even agree on what the kingdom is, let alone preach about it.

Thirdly, the prophesy in Daniel applied to "the time of the end" when a 'cleansing and refining' of God's people was to take place. (Dan 12:4, 9, 10) An 'abundance of knowledge' was to be made available at this time and the situation that Daniel describes is about to take place. (Dan 2:44) The coming of God's kingdom will "crush" all human rulership out of existence and replace it as the earth' s only rulership. It will cleanse the earth of wickedness, false worship and every last vestige of the devil's rulership over this earth. (1John 5:19)

God's footstool is about to become a fitting place for God's feet.

 

[atpollard]

please quote verses that specifically use the word "heaven" and say that people are going there.

Please quote the verses that say we will be with God forever and explain how where God lives is not "heaven".

 

[atpollard]

Bingo. that's why baptism is unnecessary.

While I tend to agree, what about all of the verses where people are commanded to be baptized?
Why is something unnecessary commanded?