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Evidence? And what does getting killed because someone wanted you dead prove?10 out of the 12 Jesus' direct disciples (they are eye-witnesses) martyred themselves to testify the truth of Jesus.
But I posit that's not why they died at all. They died because the authority figure was offended enough to kill them. They could've been talking about rocks for all I care. They could've believed in nothing.In the ancient world, nothing can be made more credible than the "middle man" being willing to die for what has been witnessed.
We can do forensics to see who's full of crap, though.Usually they are consistent in terms of reporting an incident by acquiring information from the eye-witness accounts of that incident. Say, in reporting a car accident they all say the same.
This isn't just you, but this has been bugging me here, on FB, and on twitter: the bible can't be 2000 years old, especially the NT, because Jesus would've been 18 and didn't even start his ministry, so there was nothing to report.We can be assured that the same information we read today from our OT Bible remain the same information as they were written some 2000 more years ago.
500 years from now, historians find pieces of The Prisoner of Azkaban. All the pieces are consistent. Therefore, it really happened.NT Bibles goes a similar route. We have plenty of ancient scrolls for us to be assured of a consistent NT. The NT scrolls may appear to be discrete, but since we have plenty of them for us humans to convey the same "gospel" consistently.
How did anyone know? He was alone when talking to God. There WERE NO eyewitnesses to most of what he said happened.Moses is an eye-witness of God as he acquired his information directly from God.
Why is paper important since we also have a ton of ancient stone, clay, etc texts?Quran was written after paper invention. Humans are capable of keeping documents after that point.
Where is that said in the bible?Bible however requires the Dead Sea Scrolls as a miracle for today's humans to be assured of its consistency.
LOL. Who do you think commissioned changes?In Christianity, we can't add anything to or subtract anything from the Bible as we have a Church acting as a guardian.
But if Catholics have the correct NT, why do Protestants also have the correct one? Their canons don't agree.The last earthly authority is the Protestants. Thus the Protestants are keeping both a correct NT Canon and a correct OT Canon.
So the bible was not divine as long as it was just one author at that time, before any of the others?At last, Quran is a single account document from Mohammed alone.
Kinda defeats the purpose of the bible, then, doesn't it?You can't fix the world from afar with good intentions, to believe you can is irrational given the mountains of evidence against it.
Even if you deny the bible is telling the truth (like the conquest of canaan never happened as it is portrayed in the bible), it glorifies the theft of land and murder of entire populations.I want to know how the Bible says steal the rights of others
I do not want to believe in the bible or the gospel if it is called theft
The funny part about all the anti-Mexican stuff is that the southwestern US WAS Mexico before it was the US. We stole their land, and the Mexicans/Spaniards stole it from the natives. I consider massive influxes of Mexicans into the southwest US to be historical irony, nothing more.Does this mean that after 2,000 years the Mexicans prove that America is part of their homeland, that's ridiculous
Depends on how nitpicky you want to get.I know that Christianity is a religion of tolerance and positive
I don't see Muslim society to be a threat to the US at all. At best, at their most damning deadliness, we lost several thousand people, which numbers were replaced probably within a month by birth and immigration. We aren't some two-bit town in the middle of the desert where killing 10 people would be devastating to the society's future. It's a cold thing to say, I know, but facts are facts. Those countries simply don't have what it would take. Russia and China are threats to the US. The Middle East only is a threat to each other. Israel, constantly whining about being destroyed, sure does put out a lot of tourism commercials bragging about how awesome everything is. I just don't see how they can argue danger when the images they themselves commission involve rich white yuppies sitting on the beach drinking martinis. If they were on the verge of utter destruction, "tourism" shouldn't be happening at all.We, as a Muslim society, do not constitute a threat to Israel or to the West.
I'm more interested in restoring ethnic populations. Religion is something that can change at the drop of a hat and shouldn't be the deciding factor. And yes, I'm in the US, and we have our own problem regarding stealing land from others. If Natives demanded their lands back TODAY, I'd be fine with putting them back in charge of their territory. It'd be impractical to move everyone around, but I don't see why we shouldn't have more Native power over their own lands. It's not like they can't argue the US isn't constantly under breach of contract anyway.For the sake of discussion, let's say that Israel stole land from the Palestinians. (While I don't actually agree, for this discussion, let's say it's true.) All across the ME, Muslims have been stealing much more land from nonMuslims. What would you say if somehow someone offered to give Israel back to the Palestinians, but in exchange, Muslims would have to give back all the land they've taken in the ME?
Let's be real. Muslims were rich on the spice trade. THAT'S what got Christianity's goat, not violence. If violence was their problem, why did they respond by being so violent they also killed innocent people on their way to kill Muslims?As for the Crusades, I think history shows that the Crusades were a tiny counter-attack after 400 years of violent Islamic conquest across the ME.
I would just say the Abrahamics are, though really all religions have had problems looking as enlightened as they claim, to be honest.I believe Islam is fundamentally divisive and inhumane.
Reference? People with microscopes discovered sperm.The Quran states that it is the sperm that decides the gender of a baby
Given that Greeks, Romans, Chinese, and others had had a loooooong time to do at least proto-science, it's a wonder why Abrahamic faiths are often so behind. That is not to say I don't disrespect Islam's participation in preserving science. It's just that we shouldn't forget they PRESERVED something that was already there.I would say the likelihood of primitive men producing such a book is exceedingly small.
See, Jesus told his followers we would be judged as we judge others. I find no reason why God can't suffer from the same rule.You are judging the actions of God as if a human was committing them.
Lying is a social construct problem, not a moral one. It's "wrong" in normal circumstances. But on "Opposite Day", when evil is in control (like the Holocaust), it would immoral NOT to lie to protect innocent people from evil people.For example, why is it usually wrong for a person to lie? I would suggest that it is because we cannot know the future implications of our lie, even if our lie lead to a beneficial event, that event may lead to something worse far down the road. The same reasoning could not be applied to an omnipotent and omniscient being, whether you believe in Its existence or not.
How is it really any different from the bible, though? Author self-interest is a major problem in all of the Abrahamic religions.But frequently the Quran preaches intolerance for all nonMuslims. When we take this all together, the conclusion is that the Quran is inconsistent.
If all Muslims were murderers, we'd be dealing with a lot more crap than we do. If all Christians and all Jews were murderers, we'd be dealing with a lot more crap than we do. That we aren't living (so far) in the Purge franchise means there are plenty of people who just sit on the couch and watch tv.How do you know for certain?
If all Muslims were murderers, we'd be dealing with a lot more crap than we do.
Given that Greeks, Romans, Chinese, and others had had a loooooong time to do at least proto-science, it's a wonder why Abrahamic faiths are often so behind. That is not to say I don't disrespect Islam's participation in preserving science. It's just that we shouldn't forget they PRESERVED something that was already there.
I agree that sometimes the Quran talks about how Muslims should defend themselves. And sometimes the Quran talks about how to live peacefully with nonMuslims. But frequently the Quran preaches intolerance for all nonMuslims. When we take this all together, the conclusion is that the Quran is inconsistent.
There is a point I think is important for all people who read the Quran to understand. From the perspective of cognitive science, it is extremely unhealthy that the Quran preaches intolerance towards nonMuslims over 500 times. No matter how peaceful the reader is, this repeated message will cause the reader stress and confusion. The reader might not be consciously aware of this stress, but it is there.
1. Reference? People with microscopes discovered sperm.
2. Given that Greeks, Romans, Chinese, and others had had a loooooong time to do at least proto-science, it's a wonder why Abrahamic faiths are often so behind. That is not to say I don't disrespect Islam's participation in preserving science. It's just that we shouldn't forget they PRESERVED something that was already there.
3. See, Jesus told his followers we would be judged as we judge others. I find no reason why God can't suffer from the same rule.
4. If morality is objective, then wrong is wrong no matter who does it.
5. Lying is a social construct problem, not a moral one. It's "wrong" in normal circumstances. But on "Opposite Day", when evil is in control (like the Holocaust), it would immoral NOT to lie to protect innocent people from evil people.
In the end, I do not care about the Scriptures except to take the truth from them
I would like everyone to live in peace and have rich, rewarding lives.
IMO, your scripture is an anchor that makes it harder, not easier, for you to live a rewarding life.
The most important thing I care about in Islam is one thing
They believe in one God
I also appreciate the good conversation.
To me there is a HUGE difference between how most people actually live, and what their scripture says. I think most people are kind.
But most scripture is not kind. So I think any religious person who is kind, suffers from what scientists call "cognitive dissonance". This means that they are holding two or more conflicting ideas in their brains at the same time.
The person is kind, the scripture he believes in is unkind.
That's really the problem I'm addressing. Just so you know, I feel this way about most scripture, not just the Quran. I believe the OT and NT are also very unkind books.
I'd say if you use god to justify acting violently you are an excellent example of why religion is so completely useless.
Because Christianity sets specific parameters for what constitutes the Word of God, and what is false prophecy.
Galatians 1:8 in particular automatically disqualifies the Quran, as the person involved is someone who claims to have had an encounter yet preaches a gospel contrary to the one given.
Matthew 7:5 specifically speaks about taqiyya, people who seem friendly but actually want to hurt you.
1 John 4:1-6 says you can't trust prophets blindly, but have to test what they say. In fact, it gives a method to do so. Those who believe that Jesus is not the Savior and did not die for your sins are at odds with the gospel.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 says there are people who pretend to be like Christians since even Satan disguises himself, but their judgement will come from how they act.
The Quran claims its perfection (and clarity!), many times.
I believe the Word of God ha to be perfect but one must understand that God reveals what He wishes to reveal to whom He wishes to reveal it.