How do we know a Prophet is a Prophet and sent by God?

[TransmutingSoul]

But messengers are people

Yes and no. Yes as they are born human as we are, yet the Spirit they are born with is not. They are born of the Holy Spirit, we are born of the Human Spirit.

The Bible story of the Virgin Birth is a Spiritual Metephor of how a Messenger is not a human like us, even if we see they are born of a Mother, as we all are.

As you can see, this discussion would require that we acknowledge that there is a Spirit behind creation.

This is how the Bab offered it to us

"The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover."

— Epistle to Muhammad Shah, Selections from the Writings of the Báb

That is one of the proofs of a Messenger. They will have innate knowledge of all things, but have never studied like other people.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

God is well defined.

The bible says 'God is Love'

1john 4:8 Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.

What are JW's expecting when Jesus returns? And, considering Baha'is believe the Christ has already returned, how does what they say agree with or contradicted your beliefs about what the world looks like or should look like?

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes and no. Yes as they are born human as we are, yet the Spirit they are born with is not. They are born of the Holy Spirit, we are born of the Human Spirit.

The Bible story of the Virgin Birth is a Spiritual Metephor of how a Messenger is not a human like us, even if we see they are born of a Mother, as we all are.

As you can see, this discussion would require that we acknowledge that there is a Spirit behind creation.

This is how the Bab offered it to us

"The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover."

— Epistle to Muhammad Shah, Selections from the Writings of the Báb

That is one of the proofs of a Messenger. They will have innate knowledge of all things, but have never studied like other people.

Regards Tony

What teachings do you have from the other religions that supports this Baha'i belief about manifestations being different than ordinary humans? Then, what about prophets like Isaiah and Elijah, are they different or are they ordinary humans?

 

[CG Didymus]

Did you really just argue "one can only see the truth in claim x if you believe claim x to be true"?
You really have outdone yourself this time!

Same stuff my Christian friends say... "Once you believe in Jesus and are filled with the Holy Spirit the NT and the Jewish Bible, as interpreted by Christians, becomes clear to you." Carried out to the extremes of taking the Bible and the NT as literal as possible, it becomes "clear" to Christians that Satan is real, that creation really happened as written, along with the flood.

So, now comes Baha'is... They've bought into everything this man who took the title "The Glory of God" has written, so of course it's clear to them. And, of course, those of us that don't believe or at least doubt he is a manifestation of God, don't see and we keep asking for more substantial proof. But it never comes, because the only proof they have depends on them first believing their prophet is true.

Or, maybe not, some Baha'is must have been skeptical at first. What made them change and become confident that all the stuff in the Baha'i Faith is true? And from that point on they never doubted it again? I learn new things about all the religions all the time. I don't see a time when all of a sudden I'd take the beliefs of one them and think that nothing in that religion could ever be wrong. But, it seems like religions like Christianity and the Baha'i Faith do expect a person, once they have committed themselves to believe it, to believe all of it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What teachings do you have from the other religions that supports this Baha'i belief about manifestations being different than ordinary humans? Then, what about prophets like Isaiah and Elijah, are they different or are they ordinary humans?

CG, the Bible is full of that Metephor. The virgin birth is but one Metephor, here are more;

John 1:14 "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

They are created of the Word, the Holy Spirit

Colossians 2:9 "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells".

Again the are created on the Holy Spirit, not the human spirit.

John 17:5 "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed."

Jesus and all the Messengers are pre-existent.

They are more than human.

Regards Tony

 

[KWED]

Or, maybe not, some Baha'is must have been skeptical at first. What made them change and become confident that all the stuff in the Baha'i Faith is true?

In my experience, converts to religions are usually looking for something to to hang their innate "belief" on. They already believe in "something". They already have "faith". They simply want validation for that. And a sense of community. That there are others who feel the same way.

And from that point on they never doubted it again?

But some do. There are "serial believers" who join and leave religions. Perhaps it is the hit of conversion, of that new-found faith that they are looking for and they get bored or disillusioned after the buzz has worn off. Classic addictive personality behaviour.

 

[KWED]

Below are eight important teachings.

So there are practical measures that apply to everyone, everywhere, regardless of their position, beliefs, outlook, politics, etc...

The oneness of God.

Doesn't apply to atheists, sceptics or polytheists.

The oneness of humanity.

Meaningless platitude. Of course all humans are biologically similar, but human societies and individuals differ greatly, and always will.

The oneness of religion.

So which religion was he referring to here? Did he seriously expect the whole world to convert to Baha'ism?

Religion as a school.

Again, which religion? They all teach very different things, much of which is nonsense or dangerous.

Equality of women and men.

Not unique to Baha'ism.

Harmony of religion and science.

Another meaningless platitude. How can there be harmony when religion promotes anti-science nonsense.

Universal compulsory education.

Already have that through secular means.

Universal auxiliary language.

Universal languages have been tried. They are neither practical nor necessary. (Which language would be the UAL, and who decides this?)

There are many important laws which will be necessary to be put into practice if society is ever to advance morally and spiritually. Two that come to mind are abstention from alcohol and recreational drugs and abstention from sex out of wedlock.

So the usual puritanical, unnatural nonsense.
The healthiest, safest, happiest, most prosperous, best welfare, most tolerant nations are generally liberal secular democracies. Nations that display opposite characteristics tend to be religious and restrictive.
Coincidence? Perhaps.

 

[KWED]

Messengers are human but they are also divine. That is what differentiates them from ordinary humans.

And how do you know this?
Because the person who claimed to be a messenger told you. Classic question begging.
Once you have accepted them as a MoG, you will literally believe anything they say. You have disabled your bull**** filter. We see it all the time, throughout history. Bahaullah is no different to any other cult leader.

 

[KWED]

Yes and no. Yes as they are born human as we are, yet the Spirit they are born with is not. They are born of the Holy Spirit, we are born of the Human Spirit.

The Bible story of the Virgin Birth is a Spiritual Metephor of how a Messenger is not a human like us, even if we see they are born of a Mother, as we all are.

As you can see, this discussion would require that we acknowledge that there is a Spirit behind creation.

This is how the Bab offered it to us

"The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover."

— Epistle to Muhammad Shah, Selections from the Writings of the Báb

That is one of the proofs of a Messenger. They will have innate knowledge of all things, but have never studied like other people.

Regards Tony

Once again, the only reason you believe this is because a person you believe to be divine has told you. You have literally nothing substation to support your claims.

 

[KWED]

CG, the Bible is full of that Metephor. The virgin birth is but one Metephor, here are more;

John 1:14 "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

They are created of the Word, the Holy Spirit

Colossians 2:9 "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells".

Again the are created on the Holy Spirit, not the human spirit.

John 17:5 "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed."

Jesus and all the Messengers are pre-existent.

They are more than human.

Regards Tony

You seem confused. In Christianity, Jesus is considered to be god in human form. He is not a human with special powers. You can't redefine the doctrine of other religions just to suit your own agenda.

The Bible does not claim, or even infer, that any of the prophets were divine beings. That would be a form of polytheism.

 

[Bree]

What are JW's expecting when Jesus returns? And, considering Baha'is believe the Christ has already returned, how does what they say agree with or contradicted your beliefs about what the world looks like or should look like?

We also believe that the Christ has already returned. Nice to see we have something in common.

What we expect to happen is what Jesus said would happen in Matthew 24

Matt 24:3 While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives,+ the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence+ and of the conclusion of the system of things?”+

4 In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you,+ 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.+ 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.+

7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,+ and there will be food shortages+ and earthquakes in one place after another.+ 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.

9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation+ and will kill you,+ and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.+ 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many;+ 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold.+ 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.+ 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations,+ and then the end will come.


So when Christ began to rule, the earth went into decline, the nations went to war, there were food shortages and earthquakes all around the globe as there still is right now. Things were foretold to get worse before they can get better. There are some things spoken of in prophecy which we are awaiting and finally the war of God against those who oppose the rule of Christ.

Tell me what the Bahai believe about our times, im intrigued.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

We also believe that the Christ has already returned. Nice to see we have something in common.

What we expect to happen is what Jesus said would happen in Matthew 24

Matt 24:3 While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives,+ the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence+ and of the conclusion of the system of things?”+

4 In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you,+ 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.+ 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.+

7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,+ and there will be food shortages+ and earthquakes in one place after another.+ 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.

9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation+ and will kill you,+ and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.+ 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many;+ 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold.+ 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.+ 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations,+ and then the end will come.


So when Christ began to rule, the earth went into decline, the nations went to war, there were food shortages and earthquakes all around the globe as there still is right now. Things were foretold to get worse before they can get better. There are some things spoken of in prophecy which we are awaiting and finally the war of God against those who oppose the rule of Christ.

Tell me what the Bahai believe about our times, im intrigued.

We believe all that, except it started in 1844.

Regards Tony

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Yes and no. Yes as they are born human as we are, yet the Spirit they are born with is not. They are born of the Holy Spirit, we are born of the Human Spirit.

The Bible story of the Virgin Birth is a Spiritual Metephor of how a Messenger is not a human like us, even if we see they are born of a Mother, as we all are.

As you can see, this discussion would require that we acknowledge that there is a Spirit behind creation.

This is how the Bab offered it to us

"The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover."

— Epistle to Muhammad Shah, Selections from the Writings of the Báb

That is one of the proofs of a Messenger. They will have innate knowledge of all things, but have never studied like other people.

Regards Tony

I don’t feel human. I must be a prophet.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Rule #1: If they contradict the Bible they aren't of God.

Which interpretation are you referring to? There are many. Many interpretations contradict the Bible all insist their interpretation is correct.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's based on the Bible. Not that it literally says "# 1" but to me it is rule # 1.

It's the first thing I'll check for when determining if someone is a true prophet or not.

How did you determine Christ is true? You never met Him or saw Him but relied on the reports of others. How do you know they were correct?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Same stuff my Christian friends say... "Once you believe in Jesus and are filled with the Holy Spirit the NT and the Jewish Bible, as interpreted by Christians, becomes clear to you." Carried out to the extremes of taking the Bible and the NT as literal as possible, it becomes "clear" to Christians that Satan is real, that creation really happened as written, along with the flood.

So, now comes Baha'is... They've bought into everything this man who took the title "The Glory of God" has written, so of course it's clear to them. And, of course, those of us that don't believe or at least doubt he is a manifestation of God, don't see and we keep asking for more substantial proof. But it never comes, because the only proof they have depends on them first believing their prophet is true.

Or, maybe not, some Baha'is must have been skeptical at first. What made them change and become confident that all the stuff in the Baha'i Faith is true? And from that point on they never doubted it again? I learn new things about all the religions all the time. I don't see a time when all of a sudden I'd take the beliefs of one them and think that nothing in that religion could ever be wrong. But, it seems like religions like Christianity and the Baha'i Faith do expect a person, once they have committed themselves to believe it, to believe all of it.

Hi CG. I think a lot of the answers lie in our definition of a human being. We possess the physical senses like touch, taste, smell, hearing and seeing. And these physical senses do a good job in identifying physical things. We can sense cold and heat too.

But Baha’is believe man to be a spiritual being endowed with a soul which has the ability to recognise God or perfection just like the other senses can see light or feel heat.

It is the soul innately, without any learning or education which can recognise a Prophet or Manifestation of God by His Life and Words. But just like the physical sense of smell cannot identify perfume if the nostrils have been infected by a cold, so too the soul is prevented from recognising the spiritual fragrance of a Manifestation of God if is sick.

There are many illnesses of the soul which hinder recognition of God such as intense attachment to materialism, worldly things and the ego. So not all people recognise the Manifestation if their spiritual senses are obstructed by some form of attachment.

To the spiritual, Christ, Buddha, Muhammad, Krishna, Moses, the Bab and Baha’u’llah are all One and the same Spirit of God, just appearing in different ages. We can all recognise the Manifestations of God if we are pure and cleansed of all earthly defilements. But one of the greatest obstacles to the soul recognising God is human knowledge. That is why we see the most knowledgeable clergy and priests not only deny but put to death the Manifestations.

The mind cannot grasp God. Only the soul not the human mind has been endowed with this ability to recognise God. So those seeking intellectual proof will be lost as only the soul has this ability.

 

[74x12]

How did you determine Christ is true? You never met Him or saw Him but relied on the reports of others. How do you know they were correct?

He didn't contradict the Word. Rather he explained it and expounded on it so that it became undeniable as to who he was.

 

[74x12]

Which interpretation are you referring to? There are many. Many interpretations contradict the Bible all insist their interpretation is correct.

Only listen to the interpretation that God gives you.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Same stuff my Christian friends say... "Once you believe in Jesus and are filled with the Holy Spirit the NT and the Jewish Bible, as interpreted by Christians, becomes clear to you." Carried out to the extremes of taking the Bible and the NT as literal as possible, it becomes "clear" to Christians that Satan is real, that creation really happened as written, along with the flood.

So, now comes Baha'is... They've bought into everything this man who took the title "The Glory of God" has written, so of course it's clear to them. And, of course, those of us that don't believe or at least doubt he is a manifestation of God, don't see and we keep asking for more substantial proof. But it never comes, because the only proof they have depends on them first believing their prophet is true.

Or, maybe not, some Baha'is must have been skeptical at first. What made them change and become confident that all the stuff in the Baha'i Faith is true? And from that point on they never doubted it again? I learn new things about all the religions all the time. I don't see a time when all of a sudden I'd take the beliefs of one them and think that nothing in that religion could ever be wrong. But, it seems like religions like Christianity and the Baha'i Faith do expect a person, once they have committed themselves to believe it, to believe all of it.

And they are correct as Christ is indeed the Spirit of God. Their souls have recognised Christ but worshipping Him has led them to deny His return as Baha’u’llah. It is a severe test for them but one day they will awaken and rejoice. In Revelation Christ Himself clearly states that He will return with a ‘new name’. So Christians attached to the Name of Jesus to the point of fanatically worshipping His Name will be unable to accept Him with His New Name Baha’u’llah.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Only listen to the interpretation that God gives you.

My interpretation states that Christ is true.