How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Poisonshady313]

The term the Messiah is a reference to Jesus reigning over Israel in the future.

False

 

[Poisonshady313]

With the issue of "savior", here:
The Messiah in Judaism (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ‎, romanized: māšîaḥ (Mashiach)) is the savior and liberator figure in Jewish eschatology, whose role is to restore Judaism by enabling the Jewish people to observe all 613 commandments through building the Temple in Jerusalem and then gathering the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. The concept of messianism originated in Judaism.[1] -- Messiah in Judaism - Wikipedia

Please go to this link as you'll see further elaborations on the issue of "savior".

The word "savior" being used in this way is wrong. I figure it was a non-Jewish person who wrote this, taking his best guess at how to describe the concept of the messiah, and failing to do so.

Find a source better than wikipedia.

Refer to my previous post... the word for Messiah and Savior in Hebrew may appear similar, but they are not from the same root. They cannot and may not be used interchangeably.

 

[Skywalker]

False

To be the Messiah means you have to be a king, from the line of David who is God in the flesh. The Jews knew Messiah is a king. He's not just a prophet.

And they began to accuse him, saying, “We have found this man subverting our nation. He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and claims to be Messiah, a king.” Luke 23:2-3

So Pilate asked Jesus, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

“You have said so,” Jesus replied.

 

[Poisonshady313]

To be the Messiah means you have to be a king, from the line of David

This is the only portion of your post that is correct.

There are so many reasons why the rest of what you said is either wrong or meaningless.... but rather than spend the energy listing them all, I'll just wait to see what else you say and determine if it's worth responding to.

 

[Skywalker]

This is the only portion of your post that is correct.

There are so many reasons why the rest of what you said is either wrong or meaningless.... but rather than spend the energy listing them all, I'll just wait to see what else you say and determine if it's worth responding to.

Jesus fulfilled the messianic prophecies of being from the line of David. What is the meaning of root of Jesse in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

While little is known from Scripture about the man Jesse, throughout the Old and New Testaments, he is associated with the Messiah and mentioned as an ancestor of Jesus Christ. In the book of Acts, Paul makes it clear once again that the “root of Jesse,” God’s promise to David, is indeed the Messiah and Savior, Jesus Christ: “After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’ From this man’s descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised” (Acts 13:22–23).

 

[Poisonshady313]

Jesus fulfilled the messianic prophecies of being from the line of David.

While being from David is certainly one necessary qualification for the messiah, it is far from the only one.

That being said, there are certain holes in the theory that Jesus is from the line of David.

For one thing, if you believe in the virgin birth, Jesus doesn't have a paternal link to King David. His mother's lineage is irrelevant... and I have read something somewhere that suggests she might have been from Levi, whereas David is from Judah.
And even if you rely on Joseph's lineage, it includes Jeconiah, from whom the messiah cannot descend.[/QUOTE]

 

[Skywalker]

While being from David is certainly one necessary qualification for the messiah, it is far from the only one.

That being said, there are certain holes in the theory that Jesus is from the line of David.

For one thing, if you believe in the virgin birth, Jesus doesn't have a paternal link to King David. His mother's lineage is irrelevant... and I have read something somewhere that suggests she might have been from Levi, whereas David is from Judah.
And even if you rely on Joseph's lineage, it includes Jeconiah, from whom the messiah cannot descend.

[/QUOTE]

Mary was a descendant of Nathan and Joseph was a descendant of Solomon.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Mary was a descendant of...

It cannot be stressed enough just how irrelevant this is.

 

[Poisonshady313]

and David was a descendant of Solomon.

Proofread your posts before you post them.

David was Solomon's father. Not a descendant of Solomon.

 

[Skywalker]

Proofread your posts before you post them.

David was Solomon's father. Not a descendant of Solomon.

I meant that Joseph was a descendant of Solomon.

 

[Skywalker]

It cannot be stressed enough just how irrelevant this is.

Do you think that the Jewish law that said being Jewish is from the mother existed during the time of Jesus?

 

[Poisonshady313]

Do you think that the Jewish law that said being Jewish is from the mother existed during the time of Jesus?

Nobody is disputing that Mary and Jesus (if they existed) were Jewish.
Being Jewish is entirely different from which tribe you belonged to.

If a woman from the tribe of Benjamin marries a man from the tribe of Levi, their children are Levites. It really is that simple.

 

[Skywalker]

Nobody is disputing that Mary and Jesus (if they existed) were Jewish.
Being Jewish is entirely different from which tribe you belonged to.

If a woman from the tribe of Benjamin marries a man from the tribe of Levi, their children are Levites. It really is that simple.

Jewish means that a person descends from the tribe of Judah. Joseph was related to David through Solomon.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Jewish means that a person descends from the tribe of Judah.

No it does not. Mordechai (from the book of Esther) was called "ish Yehudi", a Jewish man, even though he was from the tribe of Benjamin.

Joseph was related to David through Solomon.

If you believe in the virgin birth, Joseph's lineage is irrelavant.
If Joseph's lineage is relevant, he cannot qualify because of the curse of Jechoniah.

 

[Skywalker]

No it does not. Mordechai (from the book of Esther) was called "ish Yehudi", a Jewish man, even though he was from the tribe of Benjamin.


If you believe in the virgin birth, Joseph's lineage is irrelavant.
If Joseph's lineage is relevant, he cannot qualify because of the curse of Jechoniah.

Jewish means you follow the laws of the Hebrew Scriptures or have ancestry related to it?

Jesus was born of a virgin because he was God incarnate.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Jewish means you follow the laws of the Hebrew Scriptures or have ancestry related to it?

That is a very poorly worded question. Clean it up and try again.

Jesus was born of a virgin because he was God incarnate.

If you believe this to be true, then you have a few problems:
1. This would make Joseph's lineage irrelevant.
2. The messiah is not God.
3. Jesus is not God.

 

[Skywalker]

That is a very poorly worded question. Clean it up and try again.


If you believe this to be true, then you have a few problems:
1. This would make Joseph's lineage irrelevant.
2. The messiah is not God.
3. Jesus is not God.

I meant does Jewish mean you follow Jewish law or have ancestry related to it, as opposed to being Hebrew? Jewish people don't use the term Hebrew, in the same way African Americans don't use the term African unless they are descendants of African immigrants.

 

[Skywalker]

That is a very poorly worded question. Clean it up and try again.


If you believe this to be true, then you have a few problems:
1. This would make Joseph's lineage irrelevant.
2. The messiah is not God.
3. Jesus is not God.

The Messiah is God because he's called the everlasting Father. What is the meaning of “Everlasting Father” in Isaiah 9:6? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "What is the meaning of ‘Everlasting Father’ in Isaiah 9:6?"

Answer: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6, ESV).

In context, this verse is proclaiming the redemption of Israel and the activities, titles, and blessings of the Messiah who is to rule the earth and usher in a reign of blessing and peace that will have no end. One of His titles is “Everlasting Father.”

 

[Poisonshady313]

I meant does Jewish mean you follow Jewish law or have ancestry related to it, as opposed to being Hebrew? Jewish people don't use the term Hebrew, in the same way African Americans don't use the term African unless they are descendants of African immigrants.

A good analogy would be thinking of it like "regardless of what state you're from, American citizens are American."

It doesn't matter what tribe you're from... if you're mother's Jewish, you're Jewish... because when the People of Israel came back from the Babylonian Exile, the place they came back to was called Judea.

 

[Poisonshady313]

The Messiah is God because he's called the everlasting Father.

He most certainly is not.