How atheistic Europe has become

[Estro Felino]

Philosophically and religiously I believe that Europe as a whole, has been losing the minimum of spirituality that was highly praised by the Enlightenment of the XVIII century. Back then philosophers like Voltaire or Kant still had the awareness of the necessity of a moral and philosophical order...that Deists used to call God.
Kant used to say: Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the more often and steadily we reflect upon them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me.

As in nowadays I believe that Europe has lost that decency and that desire to implement the moral law, and universal justice. Why? Because science and medicine have convinced us that we are all eternal. And that is why you see so many old people who are terrified of getting ill. Because they are not prepared to death, neither philosophically, nor religiously.
The awareness (or rather the delusion) of being eternal (that is what Heidegger would have called the non-existence because we are mortals, we are not immortals) pushes people to become a-religious. Or atheists.

I really dislike whenever someone tells my country is a very religious country. Some sort of Catholiland. No...it is not. It is made up of nominal Catholics who go to Church just to show off and to brag about their latest fashionable dress, or just to meet people.
They have no idea what God is. The great majority of the youngest generations are atheists.
But some blame the public school for pushing students to be rationalists, for public school is supposedly secular.
But religious education is entrusted to households, not to the secular State and its apparatuses.
So I do think mine is an atheistic country. De facto atheistic and nominally religious.
The fear of God has disappeared...which is supposed to be the seventh gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Secret Chief]

Are there many antisemites in Europe?

 

[Heyo]

Are there many antisemites in Europe?

Still too many.
It seems that every right wing conspiracy theory somehow links to the Elders of Zion. But it is dangerous to be too openly antisemitic in Germany and many other counties. Denying the Holocaust is a criminal offence and will land you in prison. Iow, they exist but we've got them mostly under control.

 

[Estro Felino]

Still too many.
It seems that every right wing conspiracy theory somehow links to the Elders of Zion. But it is dangerous to be too openly antisemitic in Germany and many other counties. Denying the Holocaust is a criminal offence and will land you in prison. Iow, they exist but we've got them mostly under control.

Interesting.
Darf ich wissen, was dieses Thema mit dem Thread zu tun hat?

 

[Heyo]

Interesting.
Darf ich wissen, was dieses Thema mit dem Thread zu tun hat?

You should ask @Secret Chief. I only answered his question.

 

[Secret Chief]

You should ask @Secret Chief. I only answered his question.

I barely speak English.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Europe (as a whole) has become very atheistic. What persists is mainly just cultural Christianity. On the other hand fundamentalist minority has become louder.

 

[Heyo]

I barely speak English.

She thinks your question is off topic and asks how you'd link it to her OP.

 

[Thea]

… my country …

Which country is that?

 

[Koldo]

Philosophically and religiously I believe that Europe as a whole, has been losing the minimum of spirituality that was highly praised by the Enlightenment of the XVIII century. Back then philosophers like Voltaire or Kant still had the awareness of the necessity of a moral and philosophical order...that Deists used to call God.
Kant used to say: Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the more often and steadily we reflect upon them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me.

As in nowadays I believe that Europe has lost that decency and that desire to implement the moral law, and universal justice. Why? Because science and medicine have convinced us that we are all eternal. And that is why you see so many old people who are terrified of getting ill. Because they are not prepared to death, neither philosophically, nor religiously.
The awareness (or rather the delusion) of being eternal (that is what Heidegger would have called the non-existence because we are mortals, we are not immortals) pushes people to become a-religious. Or atheists.

I really dislike whenever someone tells my country is a very religious country. Some sort of Catholiland. No...it is not. It is made up of nominal Catholics who go to Church just to show off and to brag about their latest fashionable dress, or just to meet people.
They have no idea what God is. The great majority of the youngest generations are atheists.
But some blame the school which pushes students to be rationalists, for school is supposed secular.
But religious education is entrusted to households not to the secular State and its apparatuses.
So I do think mine is an atheistic country. De facto atheistic and nominally religious.
The fear of God has disappeared...which is supposed to be the seventh gift of the Holy Spirit.

And you think you, specifically, wouldn't face massive persecution if you were living in a deeply religious country?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Philosophically and religiously I believe that Europe as a whole, has been losing the minimum of spirituality that was highly praised by the Enlightenment of the XVIII century. Back then philosophers like Voltaire or Kant still had the awareness of the necessity of a moral and philosophical order...that Deists used to call God.
Kant used to say: Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the more often and steadily we reflect upon them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me.

Perhaps they have become irreligious after assessing the data and concluding there is no God/are no gods, and hence have become enlightened - unlike the many others who still (sometimes) have the option of choosing amongst the various religious beliefs and often at odds with each other.

As in nowadays I believe that Europe has lost that decency and that desire to implement the moral law, and universal justice. Why? Because science and medicine have convinced us that we are all eternal. And that is why you see so many old people who are terrified of getting ill. Because they are not prepared to death, neither philosophically, nor religiously.
The awareness (or rather the delusion) of being eternal (that is what Heidegger would have called the non-existence because we are mortals, we are not immortals) pushes people to become a-religious. Or atheists.

Well, if you assess the moral law as being against any in the LGBTQ+ category, as many of us might not, then perhaps the 'moral law' (of the religious) can be seen for what it is - never being objective and more about being constructed around the religious beliefs associated with such. And I doubt you have your beliefs concerning the elderly from data, given that a fear of death is inherent in most, and it's more likely that death will be welcomed - if such ends their suffering all too often.

I really dislike whenever someone tells my country is a very religious country. Some sort of Catholiland. No...it is not. It is made up of nominal Catholics who go to Church just to show off and to brag about their latest fashionable dress, or just to meet people.
They have no idea what God is. The great majority of the youngest generations are atheists.
But some blame the school which pushes students to be rationalists, for school is supposed secular.
But religious education is entrusted to households not to the secular State and its apparatuses.

So I do think mine is an atheistic country. De facto atheistic and nominally religious.
The fear of God has disappeared...which is supposed to be the seventh gift of the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps the 'fear of God' came from the unscrupulous to exploit others? Why should any fear what is?

 

[Estro Felino]

And you think you, specifically, wouldn't face massive persecution if you were living in a deeply religious country?

There is an enormous difference between theocracy and being a country of religious people.

 

[Estro Felino]

Perhaps they have become irreligious after assessing the data and concluding there is no God/are no gods, and hence have become enlightened - unlike the many others who still (sometimes) have the option of choosing amongst the various religious beliefs and often at odds with each other.

There is a wide range of positions in-between. I mean....you don't need to believe in an otherworldly deity to have a spiritual vision of human existence. Most philosophers were atheists but had a spiritual vision of life.
This life is utterly meaningless, unless we give it a meaning. There are so many injustices that I don't understand why 21st century Europeans still don't see them.
1) If these horrific flaws and injustices are indelible or unremovable, well...none of us should make children, then. Who is so cruel to make children grow in such a nightmarish waste land (like that of TS Eliot)?
2) If these horrific flaws and injustices are removable, then it's so terrible that Europeans don't make anything to remove them. They don't do that because they stake everything on this ephemeral, worldly existence. That is really meaningless, because we all will die someday. I can also die tomorrow...in a car accident or in a subway accident.

Well, if you assess the moral law as being against any in the LGBTQ+ category, as many of us might not, then perhaps the 'moral law' (of the religious) can be seen for what it is - never being objective and more about being constructed around the religious beliefs associated with such. And I doubt you have your beliefs concerning the elderly from data, given that a fear of death is inherent in most, and it's more likely that death will be welcomed - if such ends their suffering all too often.

Moral law has nothing to do with sex. I mean it includes every aspect of human existence: power, society, economics. For example...neo-liberism is utterly immoral...yet the EU practices it. The Immoral EU.
As for the elderly...well...once a physician told me that all his patient ask him for the impossible. As if they wanted to live forever.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I don't agree that Europe is becoming more atheistic. Less religiously observant certainly, and Christianity is increasingly less important; but interest in alternative spiritual traditions, Eastern religions, dharmic philosophies etc, seems to be growing all the time.

I suspect very few people are truly atheist (covers head, ducks ). It's such an extreme position to take, and extremists are especially susceptible to doubt at depth. More likely many people are either genuinely agnostic, or else largely indifferent in regard to spiritual matters. But this was probably true in the days when the pews were full (of people mostly going through the motions).

 

[Koldo]

There is an enormous difference between theocracy and being a country of religious people.

Give me an example of 'a country of religious people' that doesn't persecute trans people.

 

[Altfish]

Philosophically and religiously I believe that Europe as a whole, has been losing the minimum of spirituality that was highly praised by the Enlightenment of the XVIII century. Back then philosophers like Voltaire or Kant still had the awareness of the necessity of a moral and philosophical order...that Deists used to call God.
Kant used to say: Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the more often and steadily we reflect upon them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me.

As in nowadays I believe that Europe has lost that decency and that desire to implement the moral law, and universal justice. Why? Because science and medicine have convinced us that we are all eternal. And that is why you see so many old people who are terrified of getting ill. Because they are not prepared to death, neither philosophically, nor religiously.
The awareness (or rather the delusion) of being eternal (that is what Heidegger would have called the non-existence because we are mortals, we are not immortals) pushes people to become a-religious. Or atheists.

I really dislike whenever someone tells my country is a very religious country. Some sort of Catholiland. No...it is not. It is made up of nominal Catholics who go to Church just to show off and to brag about their latest fashionable dress, or just to meet people.
They have no idea what God is. The great majority of the youngest generations are atheists.
But some blame the school which pushes students to be rationalists, for school is supposed secular.
But religious education is entrusted to households not to the secular State and its apparatuses.
So I do think mine is an atheistic country. De facto atheistic and nominally religious.
The fear of God has disappeared...which is supposed to be the seventh gift of the Holy Spirit.

In the UK the people who are recking the country use Christianity as a tool. Look at the likes of Rees-Mogg, quote Christianity whilst voting against stopping starving children

 

[Mock Turtle]

There is a wide range of positions in-between. I mean....you don't need to believe in an otherworldly deity to have a spiritual vision of human existence. Most philosophers were atheists but had a spiritual vision of life.

Not sure one can conclude that from their writings, unless you can of course read their minds.

This life is utterly meaningless, unless we give it a meaning. There are so many injustices that I don't understand why 21st century Europeans still don't see them.
1) If these horrific flaws and injustices are indelible or unremovable, well...none of us should make children, then. Who is so cruel to make children grow in such a nightmarish waste land (like that of TS Eliot)?
2) If these horrific flaws and injustices are removable, then it's so terrible that Europeans don't make anything to remove them. They don't do that because they stake everything on this ephemeral, worldly existence. That is really meaningless, because we all will die someday. I can also die tomorrow...in a car accident or in a subway accident.

I suspect all the previous is more about WHY we should give meaning to our lives, and as to the future, than accepting any given to us from the past (via religions of course) - and such a variety to choose from - so, lost for choice.

Moral law has nothing to do with sex. I mean it includes every aspect of human existence: power, society, economics. For example...neo-liberism is utterly immoral...yet the EU practices it. The Immoral EU.
As for the elderly...well...once a physician told me that all his patient ask him for the impossible. As if they wanted to live forever.

Morality covers all of human existence. And anecdotes are not the best evidence.

 

[Estro Felino]

In the UK the people who are recking the country use Christianity as a tool. Look at the likes of Rees-Mogg, quote Christianity whilst voting against stopping starving children

Two wrongs don't make a right. And by the way...that political arena is exactly what I meant.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't agree that Europe is becoming more atheistic. Less religiously observant certainly, and Christianity is increasingly less important; but interest in alternative spiritual traditions, Eastern religions, dharmic philosophies etc, seems to be growing all the time.

I suspect very few people are truly atheist (covers head, ducks ). It's such an extreme position to take, and extremists are especially susceptible to doubt at depth. More likely many people are either genuinely agnostic, or else largely indifferent in regard to spiritual matters. But this was probably true in the days when the pews were full (of people mostly going through the motions).

Atheism is not negative at all...
It can become negative if it's synonym with unruliness. Chaos.

 

[paarsurrey]

#1 by our friend Estro Felino, of "Religion: Christianity ", thread " How atheistic Europe has become "

Philosophically and religiously I believe that Europe as a whole, has been losing the minimum of spirituality that was highly praised by the Enlightenment of the XVIII century. Back then philosophers like Voltaire or Kant still had the awareness of the necessity of a moral and philosophical order...that Deists used to call God.
Kant used to say: Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the more often and steadily we reflect upon them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me.

As in nowadays I believe that Europe has lost that decency and that desire to implement the moral law, and universal justice. Why? Because science and medicine have convinced us that we are all eternal. And that is why you see so many old people who are terrified of getting ill. Because they are not prepared to death, neither philosophically, nor religiously.
The awareness (or rather the delusion) of being eternal (that is what Heidegger would have called the non-existence because we are mortals, we are not immortals) pushes people to become a-religious. Or atheists.

I really dislike whenever someone tells my country is a very religious country. Some sort of Catholiland. No...it is not. It is made up of nominal Catholics who go to Church just to show off and to brag about their latest fashionable dress, or just to meet people.
They have no idea what God is. The great majority of the youngest generations are atheists.
But some blame the school which pushes students to be rationalists, for school is supposed secular.
But religious education is entrusted to households not to the secular State and its apparatuses.
So I do think mine is an atheistic country. De facto atheistic and nominally religious.
The fear of God has disappeared...which is supposed to be the seventh gift of the Holy Spirit.

It is the fault of the Hellenist-Paulian religion aka " Christianity" itself whatever its denomination, one gets to know, please.

This religion was and is so mythical, irrational and far from reality that people opted to become " Nones" (and or any of its denomination", one imagines, please, right?

Regards