How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

As said the Laws Change and these Rituals are no longer practiced in an outward dispaly. Their inner meaning has been explained and we are asked to Meditate on all aspects of life to unlock our spiritual understanding

As you may know the Bahá'í faith has no clergy or sacraments and virtually no rituals, I could say there may be three Bahá'í rituals.

• Obligatory daily prayers
• Reciting the prayer for the dead at a funeral
• The simple marriage cerimony

I can sèe that there may be at least two reasons why a Baha'i would avoid rituals;

Rituals can easily degenerate and become meaningless, so that people carry them out for the sake of the ritual and forget the spiritual purpose behind them and Rituals can be a form of cultural imperialism, imposing the same rituals across different cultures and destroying their rich diversity

Shoghi Effendi wrote in 1949...

"Bahá'u'lláh has reduced all ritual and form to an absolute minimum in His Faith. The few forms that there are - like those associated with the two longer obligatory daily prayers - are only symbols of the inner attitude."

Prayers have been said for your Aunt. It may interest you that we believe you can still pray for her as she can and most likely pray for you. There needs to be no seperarion.

Staya happy, Regards Tony

Thank you. We're trying to get my cousin to go up and gather family to make decisions on arrangements etc. I havent really slept.

The Bahai rituals, Id call sacraments because they are rituals you use in conjuction with your belief. Like with the miracles, I dont see how there is a point in time where rituals stop being spiritual. I find that odd but no where near historical nor common.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Rituals can easily degenerate and become meaningless, so that people carry them out for the sake of the ritual and forget the spiritual purpose behind them and Rituals can be a form of cultural imperialism, imposing the same rituals across different cultures and destroying their rich diversity

Would it be right to put a whole community of believers who use ritual (culture/for example family rituala passed down) in one boat of people who do rituals for the sake of it and not for their spiritual wellbeing?

Some people use rituals just because. Youre putting them in one boat. Your opinion is alright but the generalizing is more so I get annoyed with (indirect form of prejudism or discrimination one of the two words) more so than empty rituals. I never performed a ritual that means nothing spiritually.

I can see how thats possible for Some people but thats the people not the religion and not an organization of people who dont share your opinion of how they interact with god.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Hi all - and happy new year! Just to be fair Siti has not left, just taken a hiatus enforced by the need to spend time on the roof (repairs) and other essential activities that had been left until the end of last year - very busy indeed and used the internet only once in the last 3 weeks - and that to check on the progress of some work-related activities.

Welcome back. Good to have you here.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thank you. We're trying to get my cousin to go up and gather family to make decisions on arrangements etc. I havent really slept.

The Bahai rituals, Id call sacraments because they are rituals you use in conjuction with your belief. Like with the miracles, I dont see how there is a point in time where rituals stop being spiritual. I find that odd but no where near historical nor common.

I think I now see your point, sorry missed it to date.

Yes we do not say that with the rituals that people are not practicing spiritually.

Baha'u'llah is saying the literal ritual has led to wrong conceptions about the spiritual. The ritual practiced should not have veiled them from the return of Christ, if it is indeed has done this, then you should be able to see that is an issue.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Would it be right to put a whole community of believers who use ritual (culture/for example family rituala passed down) in one boat of people who do rituals for the sake of it and not for their spiritual wellbeing?

What if it is all those conceptions has led the people to reject, persecute and crucify the one they wait for? If you personally did not carry out those actions, I am sure the regret to have participated in those thoughts would be horrific.

I know that my past paticipation in any entertainment that has been forbidden by God is hard to balance in mind. What if you know that by participating in violent video games of movie culture, we are actually helping to feed the world of war!

Regards Tony

 

[Sundance]

We are talking about the resurrection. Christians or Baha'is? Who is correct? Who is wrong?

What are the verifiable facts regarding the Resurrection?

The answer to this question, at least until any solid historical facts are presented, is that there are none. There are no solid facts regarding the Resurrection, other than that Christians believe that it was bodily and that Bahá’ís believe that it was spiritual. In such an absence, anything said on the matter is merely speculation. No one is right and no one is wrong. That is all. Christians have their belief, Bahá’ís have ours.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Does Bart Ehrman believe the resurrection really happened? Or, does he believe it is fiction?

Why not read how Dr Ehrman views the resurrection rather than trying to put words in his mouth. Clearly He doesn't believe in the resurrection literally but appreciates the importance of the resurrection for Christian belief.

Jesus’ Return to Life as a Resurrection

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What if it is all those conceptions has led the people to reject, persecute and crucify the one they wait for? If you personally did not carry out those actions, I am sure the regret to have participated in those thoughts would be horrific.

I know that my past paticipation in any entertainment that has been forbidden by God is hard to balance in mind. What if you know that by participating in violent video games of movie culture, we are actually helping to feed the world of war!

Regards Tony

I put it in my odd Buddhist perspective. I am not seperated from you and individual people. When I practices at Church we were One unit in Christ. One body of people who practiced the same visual rituals to express and live a spiritual part of our being. I dont know if 90% are fakes and 10 are not or the other way around. I dont like watching the news to build bias of who did what, why, when, and how.

So it keeps me in one body (unity ) with like minded people and a like minded goal. It wasnt "about" rituals. The rituals were a part of our faith to god. Like hugging someone you love or holding someone hand when dying.

The latter may not be able to feel your touch but is it still wrong or not needed all because they cant recognize outwordly your show of compassion and love?

Thats what rituals are like to me. I cant side them up with a set of people who do them for the wrong reasons. Reminds me of people watching sci-fi and wondering why they are paranoid because "thr end of the world is near."

No kiddin' I cant remember what year, I think it was 99 when people stocked up on can goods and the news counting down to the End. You keep hearing music about he end on the radio and shows about it. Was pretty creepy.

Anyway, people get ahead of themselves with all tbe spirituality. Rituals ground you. Some people abuse it but we arent the news. You do and I do too sometimes.

We are part of these "people" you speak of. I just find it interesting to observe it. I thought it was just Americans. Now I know its not in the culture. Not the place. Not the language. Not the rituals.

Thr pride of the spirit.

Something that keeps us attached to this life and that spiritual is part of this life too.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thr pride of the spirit.

Something that keeps us attached to this life and that spiritual is part of this life too.

Now that is really the Truth for all of us. Well done. We all do have to deal with these aspects of our spirit.

I can offer a thought that, that pride in our sprit is indeed what stops us giving full submission to God and His Messengers (Great Beings).

It is that Submissuon that frees us from this life of self. The aim we all pursue in our diversity of understanding.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What if it is all those conceptions has led the people to reject, persecute and crucify the one they wait for? If you personally did not carry out those actions, I am sure the regret to have participated in those thoughts would be horrific.

I know that my past paticipation in any entertainment that has been forbidden by God is hard to balance in mind. What if you know that by participating in violent video games of movie culture, we are actually helping to feed the world of war!

Regards Tony

Wait. How do you compare using rituals As one's spiritual growth with playing video games that doesnt contribute to his or her spiritual growth?

Thats like my Catholic friend comparing marriage to murder. She bypassed who people are spiritually and focused on their genetalia which many spiritual people would not do if physical is secondary to spiritual growth.

I dont know if you'll follow along my logic, but the comparison to your post sounds crude.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Wait. How do you compare using rituals As one's spiritual growth with playing video games that doesnt contribute to his or her spiritual growth?

Thats like my Catholic friend comparing marriage to murder. She bypassed who people are spiritually and focused on their genetalia which many spiritual people would not do if physical is secondary to spiritual growth.

I dont know if you'll follow along my logic, but the comparison to your post sounds crude.

The power of our mind is yet to be considered.

That was not a comparison, but a thought to consider the power of mind when used jointly for a reason.

"I charge you all that each one of you concentrate all the thoughts of your heart on love and unity. When a thought of war comes, oppose it by a stronger thought of peace. A thought of hatred must be destroyed by a more powerful thought of love. Thoughts of war bring destruction to all harmony, well-being, restfulness and content. (Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 29)

So lets now use the Doctrine of the Trinity, so many Minds focusing on this concept that is exclusive of other Faiths. If this is wrong, see how a unity of Mind based in what is thought to be good and Spiritual, may be in fact having the opposite effect in the world.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The power of our mind is yet to be considered.

That was not a comparison, but a thought to consider the power of mind when used jointly for a reason.

"I charge you all that each one of you concentrate all the thoughts of your heart on love and unity. When a thought of war comes, oppose it by a stronger thought of peace. A thought of hatred must be destroyed by a more powerful thought of love. Thoughts of war bring destruction to all harmony, well-being, restfulness and content. (Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 29)

So lets now use the Doctrine of the Trinity, so many Minds focusing on this concept that is exclusive of other Faiths. If this is wrong, see how a unity of Mind based in what is thought to be good and Spiritual, may be in fact having the opposite effect in the world.

Regards Tony

Your spiritual-first is bias (one sided).

The Trinity issues is political. Christians agree jesus has divinty (he isnt a regular joe smoe). They believe the father (the creater). They believe god's "working" spirit (whether its external or not its treated as god's working force to save people). Trinity just shows the Relationship between each nothing more.

Ironically, I see the beauty in the different christian views to the same core beliefs of all denoninations. You see the differences in "whats real and whats not", whats been changed, what people practice wrong, etc

When I visit my mother she's go on about what's wrong with the world. I have to stop her a lot and ask, anything positive happen.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If this is wrong, see how a unity of Mind based in what is thought to be good and Spiritual, may be in fact having the opposite effect in the world.

Problem is, this doesnt exclude you.

Instead of seeing problems, Act on the solutions.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Trinity just shows the Relationship between each nothing more.

We also offer we consider all that is good, but if that is rejected, what is the next line of action if it is not to prove how the good may have been overlooked? What is the wisdom to know when to part from a coversation, so negative is not the result?

What are the most quoted doctrines that Christains use to refute any other Faith you see on the net?

I will list them if you wish? The Trinity will be high on the list. So are you sure it is nothing more than just showing a relationship?

I think the problem arises when people see comments on a Faith as personal. If we can let go of self, it would not matter, we could share hard topics and no upset would be noted.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Problem is, this doesnt exclude you.

Instead of seeing problems, Act on the solutions.

Yes Carlita that does not exclude me, I am the first to admit this, so I ask how do you know what I have done in my life to implement what is shared?

I see it as ironical, in a great and pleasing way, if I can use the word in that context, that you now use the statement that we offered when we started posting and have always offerd.

That is see and work for the Good.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Problem is, this doesnt exclude you.

Instead of seeing problems, Act on the solutions.

My solution is back to work, have a great night, my day only a 1/3 done.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We also offer we consider all that is good, but if that is rejected, what is the next line of action if it is not to prove how the good may have been overlooked? What is the wisdom to know when to part from a coversation, so negative is not the result?

If the conversations were assertive and positive and reflective of the differences that hinder conversation (not agreement), if something "negative" happens in matter of perception, it can be handled in a constructive manner.

What are the most quoted doctrin

I dont know. I see doctrine and spiritually the same.

I will list them if you wish? The Trinity will be high on the list. So are you sure it is nothing more than just showing a relationship?

Yes. If going by scripture, it only shows the relationship the creator, his son, and his love relate to each other.

Use doctrine and dogma in a positive way. Everything has bias. Which way would you see it, positive or negative?

I think the problem arises when people see comments on a Faith as personal. If we can let go of self, it would not matter, we could share hard topics and no upset would be noted.

This involves you as well. The ego can manifest itself indirectly too. Negativity doesnt need to be extreme to affect others.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Jesus was a jew. The Church put the bible together. They decided whats sacred and what is not. The bible you use is not from Christ. Its from The Church. Communion, sacrifice and repentence are in the OT way back in the first five books. Verbal conviction of faith and baptism is in the gospels.

It has always been jewish and other cultural traditions to commune as god's peoples over a meal. People repented to priests in the OT. Baptism is also in the NT jesus was baptised in water as well as the spirit.

What you are talking about is totally different. One because Roman Catholicm doesnt speak for christians. Two, you are mixing god's teachings with politics.

Also, I dont know why you dont see physical as just as important as spiritual. The only other people I know that tears apart culture for "spiritual" truth is many new age religions. Its not at all historical and pulling apart jesus culture, saying it isnt important in spirituality, is spiting at jesus, his family, disciples, and followers.

Which sacraments in christianity (in the bible) are Not in the bible?

None of the churches sacraments are laws instituted by Christ. They were made up by the church and formed into rituals. Christ made no mention that Christians were to perform any rituals.

We see the body as important but subservient to the soul, spirit or higher nature.

Over time, people have bowed their knees before vain imaginations and called it truth and so Baha’u’llah has appeared to set us on the path of truth again.

It’s very clear to me when I see the condition of the world that people are not following truth but their own imaginations of truth. If they were following truth they would be united as truth is one. But we are a house divided against itself.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Both go together. Cant separate the two.

We don’t need physical water in order to have a belief.

 

[loverofhumanity]

A sacrament is a visual sign of a spiritual conviction. The use of prayer is a sacrament. The bible, quran, and bahaullah writings are sacraments. Statues in hindu temples are sacraments.



No baptism, repentence, verbal conviction, and communion?

Thats the whole bible old and new testament. Youre saying the these things in the bible arent relevant????

What sacraments are you referring to thats Not in the bible?

Where does Christ say to adopt rituals and ceremonies? He never gave any such commandments or laws. He commanded His followers to love. And there’s the Beautitudes.