How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes this is what is being said, that we look for the Spiritual Meaning in what is being offered.

I would also add, though in the one teaching, it is John offering Baptism by water and it is Christ who will Baptise by Holy Spirit and Fire. Thus offering two aspects of Spiritual thought.

Regards Tony

@InvestigateTruth

Unless symbols are based on a real or imagined event, it means nothing. What is a symbol without the actual event it represents?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christ must welcome those that are, all those based in His Love and Servitide.

Regards Tony

Christ isnt open minded. He isnt a universalist. Thats all man. Love has stipulations from a christ view.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Christ isnt open minded. He isnt a universalist. Thats all man. Love has stipulations from a christ view.

I am Happy the Christ in my Heart, the Christ given by God, is open minded and all Loving

Where does a closed minded Christ come from?

Be happy now Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am Happy the Christ in my Heart, the Christ given by God, is open minded and all Loving

Where does a closed minded Christ come from?

Be happy now Regards Tony

Ive never heard of christ approving all people.

If christ was universal you would not need me to one day find god nor say Im a seeker of sorts as if Im lost on a road only you can see. There wouldnt be one sidedness in abrahamics.

If christ is universal you dont need god to worship him.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Ive never heard of christ approving all people.

If christ was universal you would not need me to one day find god nor say Im a seeker of sorts as if Im lost on a road only you can see. There wouldnt be one sidedness in abrahamics.

If christ is universal you dont need god to worship him.

Christ is all the Great Beings, the First and the Last, how Universal can we be?

Many Sheep Christ said He had that were not of the Christain Fold.

We are all Christs Sheep. Some Folds do not know they have a Shepherd, they are left to roam as they wish.

Its great, I can do this all day, that is the Oneness of God. How about you?

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christ is all the Great Beings, the First and the Last, how Universal can we be?

Many Sheep Christ said He had that were not of the Christain Fold.

We are all Christs Sheep. Some Folds do not know they have a Shepherd, they are left to roam as they wish.

Its great, I can do this all day, that is the Oneness of God. How about you?

Regards Tony

Universal means every person regardless their religion with or without god(s) can practice their faith without needing to believe in god to do so. There would be no one god. We would at least need to be polytheist. One god is politics. Its a governing source that by being One excludes other gods; thereby it excludes Pagans, Hindus, etc who believe in different multiple gods both defined different with different nature and different various ways some gods interact with believers while other gods do not.

Universal doesnt say "no one gets to the father but through me" no prophets. No manifestations. All equally accepted.

Universal by definition doesnt pick and choose. No sacred books. No god foundation.

Universalist church I went to one time accepts christians, pagans, and atheist among others under one roof. The difference between them and bahai: no god at the center.

How about me?

Are you reading and accepting what I say?

There is no god.
Only The Buddha's Dharma

This is why I dont want to imagine a god. I value community and cant be in commune with peers who hope others come to god.

Its wrong.

 

[Sundance]

That's what's so difficult with these conversations... Believers think their truth is the correct one. I think there's truths in all religions, but I think Baha'is take the argument to far by trying to make all religions one. I fine with the differences.

But Baha'is can't have contradictions between religions. So Christians have to be wrong in their belief about Jesus and the resurrection. Baha'is need a way to explain it that fits their beliefs. Same thing with Hinduism and reincarnation. Hindus have to have it wrong, because it doesn't fit into the Baha'i truth.

I just would like to correct your misunderstandings here, @CG Didymus, if I may.

Firstly, in the Bahá’í Faith, religious truth is not seen as absolute but relative (in accordance with the time, place and culture). Bahá’u’lláh – multiple times –affirms that there exist clear differences between the religions, and that they are the products of the day and age and also of people's own understandings. He recognized that people had different interpretations of Reality.

Second, resulting from that recognition, He did, indeed, have criticisms involving other Religions within His milieu, not of Their Teachings, but of some of the attitudes or tendencies held by some of the adherents (specifically, clerics). Some of the ideas He criticizes include exclusivism, the finality of religion, literalist readings of the various Scriptures, sectarianism and the insistence on a singularity of understanding regarding religion.


With all of this stated, it is incorrect to state that Bahá’ís are unwilling to acknowledge that different understandings of things exist between religions or that we see our own understanding as being absolutely correct as you imply.


I think your problem stems from a difficulty in understanding the central concept of this Faith called “the unity of religions”. The following is a beautiful explanation of what is actually meant:

When Bahá'ís say that the various religions are one, they do not mean that the various religious creeds and organizations are the same. Rather, they believe that there is only one religion and all of the Messengers of God have progressively revealed its nature. Together, the world's great religions are expressions of a single unfolding Divine plan, "the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future."

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Are you reading and accepting what I say

It is a known wonder, that both Wrong and Right are given to lead us to the same point of Truth.

Thus I read what you say and accept what you say is good for you. Unfortunatly that is as far as it will go, a faith good for you. If you are happy to live with that restriction, then it is not I that can change this.

God is all embracing, all are invited and always welcome.

This is what the Great Beings have offered all humanity from the beginning that has no beginning and will do to the end that has no end.

Stay happy Carlita, times are changing fast now. It is changing for the good of all.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

So there is no such thing as jesus baptism and telling others to baptise in father, son, and holy spirit? No verbal confirmation of faith with mouth and spirit? No repentence to god and others? No communion regardless jesus and his disciples did it?

The only one I can think of thats not in scripture directly is ordaning priest. Marriage is there though.

What sacraments are you referring to thats not in the bible?

I have scripture for all of these unless youre not going by the bible itself.

Christ instituted no sacraments. He instituted no rituals or ceremonies. The rituals were concocted by the church not by Jesus. These sacraments were made laws by the church not Jesus.

Jesus gave very few commandments and laws amongst them was to love one another which Christians forgot once they fought wars against each other.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It says baptism by water. Unless there is a contridiction in scripture?

It says people were baptised by water before jesus came. Once he comes, people would be baptised in the spirit.

If it is only spiritual, why would John use water and not the holy spirit?

Just as water is used to cleanse the body, So acceptance of Jesus (Baptism) cleanses the spirit.

 

[dfnj]

Just as water is used to cleanse the body, So acceptance of Jesus (Baptism) cleanses the spirit.

I worked once with a Muslim guy from Indonesia. He made a comment once, "Are you drinker of blood?" And I said what are you talking about. He referred to people who took sacramental wine as "blood drinkers". You have to admit some of these body metaphors are a little weird. Maybe the water is just water given to us by God.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I worked once with a Muslim guy from Indonesia. He made a comment once, "Are you drinker of blood?" And I said what are you talking about. He referred to people who took sacramental wine as "blood drinkers". You have to admit some of these body metaphors are a little weird. Maybe the water is just water given to us by God.

Yes it is indeed a journey of discovery when contemplating metaphors.

Could Baha'u'llah have been using this passage as an answer to the Metaphor of drinking of the wine?

This comes from Baha'u'llah's address to Pope Pius IX.

"...Arise in the name of thy Lord, the God of Mercy, amidst the peoples of the earth, and seize thou the Cup of Life with the hands of confidence. First drink thou therefrom, and proffer it then to such as turn towards it amongst the peoples of all faiths.
Baha'u'llah..."Summons of the Lord of Hosts, 105, p. 56

Regards Tony

 

[dfnj]

Yes it is indeed a journey of discovery when contemplating metaphors.

Could Baha'u'llah have been using this passage as an answer to the Metaphor of drinking of the wine?

This comes from Baha'u'llah's address to Pope Pius IX.

"...Arise in the name of thy Lord, the God of Mercy, amidst the peoples of the earth, and seize thou the Cup of Life with the hands of confidence. First drink thou therefrom, and proffer it then to such as turn towards it amongst the peoples of all faiths.
Baha'u'llah..."Summons of the Lord of Hosts, 105, p. 56

Regards Tony

Who is Baha'u'llah ?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Who is Baha'u'llah ?

Baha'u'llah is the Latest Messenger from God who has come to Unite the peoples of the world.

This is a quick overview and a link to the offical site.

The Bahá’í Faith - The website of the worldwide Bahá’í community


“If the learned and worldly-wise men of this age were to allow mankind to inhale the fragrance of fellowship and love, every understanding heart would apprehend the meaning of true liberty, and discover the secret of undisturbed peace and absolute composure.”

– Bahá’u’lláh

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

A sacrament is a visual sign of a spiritual conviction. The use of prayer is a sacrament. The bible, quran, and bahaullah writings are sacraments. Statues in hindu temples are sacraments.

Christ instituted no sacraments. He instituted no rituals or ceremonies. The rituals were concocted by the church not by Jesus. These sacraments were made laws by the church not Jesus.

Jesus gave very few commandments and laws amongst them was to love one another which Christians forgot once they fought wars against each other.

No baptism, repentence, verbal conviction, and communion?

Thats the whole bible old and new testament. Youre saying the these things in the bible arent relevant????

What sacraments are you referring to thats Not in the bible?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Just as water is used to cleanse the body, So acceptance of Jesus (Baptism) cleanses the spirit.

Both go together. Cant separate the two.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christ instituted no sacraments. He instituted no rituals or ceremonies. The rituals were concocted by the church not by Jesus. These sacraments were made laws by the church not Jesus.

Jesus gave very few commandments and laws amongst them was to love one another which Christians forgot once they fought wars against each other.

Jesus was a jew. The Church put the bible together. They decided whats sacred and what is not. The bible you use is not from Christ. Its from The Church. Communion, sacrifice and repentence are in the OT way back in the first five books. Verbal conviction of faith and baptism is in the gospels.

It has always been jewish and other cultural traditions to commune as god's peoples over a meal. People repented to priests in the OT. Baptism is also in the NT jesus was baptised in water as well as the spirit.

What you are talking about is totally different. One because Roman Catholicm doesnt speak for christians. Two, you are mixing god's teachings with politics.

Also, I dont know why you dont see physical as just as important as spiritual. The only other people I know that tears apart culture for "spiritual" truth is many new age religions. Its not at all historical and pulling apart jesus culture, saying it isnt important in spirituality, is spiting at jesus, his family, disciples, and followers.

Which sacraments in christianity (in the bible) are Not in the bible?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I have to come back when the public computer is free. On my tablet. Im not a sacred book person. My spiritual knowledge comes from my experiences. I read the bible twice and I will always use The Church as a point of reference to christianity. Without them, no protestants,. No bible.

Do the Churches follow the will of the father? How do you know? Jesus and authors of Bible warned against false teachers among Christions. Should a Christian consider the possibility that the churches have false teachers?

This is cheating. If you know scriptures, why discuss it with me if all of this is your Opinion? That statement came vibatum from the bible.

Can he do all things or not?

That was the point. You are asking if everything is possible with God. The answer can be seen from the words of God in the Scriptures.

We are talking about christianity.

No, we are talking about the words of God recorded in the Scriptures, including but not limited to the Bible. Christianity includes the opinions of Christians, which may or may not be compatible with the Bible. There could be misunderstandings and false teachers, so we cannot just blindly take their words for it. We should look into the Scriptures which are the word of God.

Science doesnt outdo god's abilities. Why would god be limited by the "laws" of science?

Correct. But that does not mean God does illogical and unwise deeds.
How many times should I repeat the question?!! I asked, when Jesus came down from heaven He did not come down with a physical body. His body was born from Marry. God the Father who is in Heaven also does not have a physical body. He is an invisible Spirit. So, how is that logical to say Jesus went to heaven with a physical body, when neither the Father has a physical body, nor did He have before He came down. Do Christians have a logical answer for this or not?! What is it?!

No. Christians speak of a physical body as does scripture to give christians visual reassurance they will go up to heaven just as he did.

The Christian speak of a physical body, but what you seem to miss is, sometimes the Authors of Bible uses Symbolic Language, thus Their words may appear to be speaking of a physical resurrection, yet, They mean to express a spiritual story using a symbolic language. Just because They seem to speak of a physical resurrection, does not mean They really meant a physical resurrection. Just as when the Authors of Bible spoke of Baptizing with Fire, They did not mean literally burning with physical fire. Or when they said they saw Moses and Elijah, most Christians do not believe Moses and Elijah were physically present there. The Scriptures contains symbolism, visions, spiritual realities. It is quite a childish approach to read everything too literally in the Book of God, if you know what I mean.

The vision you keep referring to is both physical and spiritual.

According to who? You? All Christians? You need to be specific. Show the evidence it was physical. Am I just supposed to take your words for it? Is your understanding of Bible perfect?

Again, what is a spirit and how does it rise?

We do not know. It is supernatural. Science deals only with natural, so we cannot know. God in Scriptures told us, we have Spirit. That is all we are told.

If a symbol is it based on real events or fake ones?

Real, but not physical reality.

If I believed in god it would be hindu first. I see no love from the abrahamic god. I also dont want to commune with anyone with a "he is wrong" mindset.

Whatever you like. It is a free world.

Ideally, yes. You arent god so how do I take your words as more than a opinion?

Use you judgement. If what is told to you is fair and logical accept it. If it is not fair and logical, reject it. Be fair in your judgement.

If you dont understand it, how can you describe it beyond what you Think the spirit is and does?

We cannot understand or describe it. We only know from scriptures that we have spirit.
Bahai scriptures tells us, just as one does not know about this world, when he is in the womb, likewise we cannot know of the Spiritual World, while we are still in this world. All we know, is there is a spiritual world after here.

If you can tell me about of it, can you tell me exactly what rises?

Bahai scriptures tells us, nothing physically rises. The Prophets used the word 'rise', in accordance with the level of understanding of people.
It is like, if you say, 'Love' is in the heart, but that does not mean if you open the heart, you can take out the 'Love' in the heart. Love is not physically in the heart, yet, it is said it is in the heart.

You get my point?

Not yet. Do you get my points?

Between the past and present what year did god stop doing miracles that you believe are now symbolic? Do you believe in miracles today?

I did not say God cannot or does not do Miracles. I said God does not do illogical and useless things. He does wise things.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Both go together. Cant separate the two.

Carlita, I have awoken this morning and consider that what you have offered in that short reply is correct. I found this by writing my reply to you and thus have again been blessed by learning from our continued conversations.

Carlita, Baptisim by water was approved for the Dispensation of Christ and it was a Neccerssary part of Faith in Christ. The intent was to give conviction to the Spiritual aspect of that knowledge. Christs Laws were thus changed by Muhammad, the new way was Submission to God in the call to Obligatory Prayer.

This is the changeable aspect of God Faiths. The Laws given to suit the age the Message was given in. The Obligatory Prayer aspect is still Law but the frequency has changed.

Thus Submission in Prayer to all Gods Messengers, the Great Beings, does still contain an aspect of water. Daily Obligatory prayer given by Baha'u'llah requires that the person first washes His hands and face 3 times. If no water is available the verse, "In the name of God the Most Pure the Most Pure" must be said 5 times.

These ablutions are also applicable before reciting the Greatest Name 95 times per day (Allah'u'abha).

So yes, the use of external washing in Rememberance of God does indeed continue. The Law has changed as to how it is done when we use the material water as an aid to the inner meanings. It is now Daily and not a Once only event.

Thank you for your persistence, I had not connected those two Laws of Faith to date, but now have a different frame of reference. It could be that the Bread and the Wine for Rememberance, Thanksgiving and Praise have been replaced by the Fasting Laws for Rememberance, Thanksgiving and Praise.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Which sacraments in christianity (in the bible) are Not in the bible?

I guess in light of my last reply, the question could be how were the Sacrements altered or abrogated by Laws in the Koran and then by the laws of Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony