CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Well the Christians accepted it as theirs. But if you want it too, then who wrote it?
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How are these Great Beings explained?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
What happens when the "interested" person disagrees with the Baha'i? Does the Baha'i tolerate the opposing view or tells them how they are wrong?
InvestigateTruth
Well-Known Member
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
So what year did the Ummayads officially became the beast?
siti
Well-Known Member
Yes - fulfillment of the prophetic visions of Isaiah, Zechariah, Moses...but not Daniel - not the one that specified the very year of the re-establishment of the figurative "temple" which Baha'u'llah did refer to - not a word about that prophecy. Not until that understanding was 'revealed' by the scholarly work of Gulpaygani? And even then, it was still left to the unfaithful usurper Kheiralla to propagate this understanding of Daniel's prophecy in the US.
Gulpaygani was in Persia when he wrote the book IT referred to and this was in 1887 - Baha'u'llah was still alive but had not been in Persia for quite some time. Indeed, he [Baha'u'llah] had specifically addressed letters to Christian monarchs in Europe in which he - as I have noted - specifically mentioned prophecies from other OT prophets and the words of Jesus - all of which were intended to make the point that "now is the time" - and despite all of this, it never crossed his divine mind to mention "oh and by the way, there's also a prophecy that Daniel recorded that backs this up by giving the exact date...". I still can't get over that. It still looks like a glaring omission to me.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Who is the second beast? And are all the Imans false?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
So God has allowed the words of his prophets and his religions to get corrupted. Except this time, it will be different? No, I'm not happy and I've become very skeptical about what people tell me is the Word of God. And no, by their fruits doesn't prove their religion. Usually it only proves that people can't live by what their religion teaches.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
No, my friend. In my belief (Advita Hinduism), Brahman is not a supernatural being. It does not control anything. It has no need to control anything. And there is no God or Goddess. Whatever seems to happen is but an illusion (maya). What really happens is not something that one can see (the flux in physical energy). The view was defined in the various Upanishads. It is not a cult because there is no particular person to whom the view can be credited.
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oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Christians definitely have idols, and pray to them, or in front of them.
But afaik Bahais only have framed symbols, badges or symbols in their jewellery.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Different cultures can communicate in different ways, in writing and in speech.
One debating tactic is to shock another debater in some way. By using such technique (within the rules) sometimes this causes snap replies which can produce more light upon the subject matter.
Now you know that this is true, because bahais often use the 'clash of swords bringing sparks of truth' phrase to make exactly such a point.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
That is the problem with many religions, isn't it?
The follower learns what to believe, how to live, what to do, what to dismiss, etc.
And the more deeply the follower enters into such religion, so the less free in mind and body. Prejudice.
One bahai has already explained that he does not watch a certain celebrity's programmes, which is just slamming a door upon an extraordinary mind ..... for whatever reason.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Thanx for the info.
According to that Definition (jolly old google) the group needs a God, Gods, or supernatural being NOT to be a cult, which is why I asked about Brahman.
Oh alright, you can be a religion!
Prophecy should not be needed. Baha'u'llah gives us the Greatest Proof “Is it not enough for them that We have sent down unto Thee the Book?” This is the testimony which He, Himself, hath ordained; greater proof than this there is none, nor ever will be: “This proof is His Word; His own Self, the testimony of His truth.”
Thus the Messenger and the Word are equal proofs and nothing else should be needed.
"Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful." Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah
"He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person." Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah
Baha'u'llah did not need to offer more than He did, that was for the future to discover and embrace. The Word is left as a bounty so we can do just that and He also gifted Abdul'baha to give us more understanding. Consider all these people spent much time with either Baha'u'llah and Abdul'baha or with people that had learned from Baha'u'llah or Abdul'baha. The knowledge did not come from them but from Faith in Baha'u'llah.
I also consider that of over the 100 Volumes available, there are many many writings yet to be translated, many fell in hostile hands, many lost and many many more destroyed. Who know what was in them?
Regards Tony
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
This is the only symbol I have ever seen in connection with bahai, found in picture frames, badges, rings etc.
This is important to come to terms with. Yes God allows us our free will. Thus there is wisdom unfolding in all those choices. There will be Prophets into the Future. That to me says we will go through a winter and renewal will be required.
But we are in the age of Growth
The key in this age, is the advice I posted to you early on in our discussions. We can not allow mans actions and ideas to override our own internal given balance of Justice. We must free ourselves of what we think we know and then implement this advice;
"O SON OF SPIRIT! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting."
"O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes."
Regards Tony
That is the symbol of the Greatest Name. Bahá'í symbols - Wikipedia
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Haykal-Bab-2.gif
Regards Tony
Elijah always comes first. The Last time Elijah came was 1844 as the Bab (Gate or Door).
I have been in the Cave of Elijah on Mt Carmel. Found it a bit materialistic, as tourists happy snapping while people trying to pray.
Though was a bounty to say a Prayer for Elijah in the Shadow of the Elijah for our Age, then also offer a Prayer for the Elijah of this day, also on My Carmel.
Regards Tony
Yes, but there is a key difference. The ritual invokes the actual presence of God, in mystic Hinduism. Actual inner beings (spirits) show up, to help with prayers or unseen blessings. The ritual is very far from being empty. But I wouldn't expect you to understand this either as It's an experience. So it's like a morning exercise, stretching is good for the physical body, the sadhana/puja is good for the soul body. Hindus believe we have to feed the soul body as well.
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And yet the words your previous leaders used for so called Covenant Breakers (anyone who disagreed back then), and occasionally just non-Baha'is like deluded, blind, walking away from God, diseased, and more are okay? Clearly a double standard. Of course they are excused by Baha'i because they're infallible, but for those of us who don't think they were infallible, there is no excuse. (I'm personally not offended, BTW, just pointing out how it could be seen as offensive by some.)
Even here, I see the criticism of non-Baha'i as not helpful. Then again it is a debate. Maybe both sides see the other POV as not helpful.
The other point I missed was that Aup's insults included many Hindu groups (most folks consider them Hindu, Aup doesn't) as well. Nobody is immune in the insult game. Also, he certainly isn't the first to refer to the Baha'i as a cult.
My side of the debating will continue, attempting to be cordial.
Depends on the individual Baha'i I would imagine, but yes, I would imagine that could be the case. Twiice now I've had my Mormon missionary neighbours over for a meal, (they're kids, often lonely, we give them a home-cooked meal and some friendly chat) and although we've shared a tiny bit of belief, there is no telling the other guy he is wrong. Not part of the program.