How are these Great Beings explained?

[oldbadger]

I don't know what that says about society. Of the two, I certainly prefer the former. JW is crashing here though. You people from the old country!

Is that in Canada?
I know something of your thoughts about the JWs ( ) but although I cannot make sense of their beliefs, they have always seemed 'straight' to me, in as much as they just don't cherry-pick for their faith, they don't use 'double-think' unless any here would like to offer any examples.
That separates them entirely from most other Christian Creeds. (that might light the odd firework).

 

[Vinayaka]

Is that in Canada?

Yes. Bad omens for Watchtower as new Yearbook shows decreases for Canada, Australia and much of Europe - JWsurvey

I have mixed feelings. A former colleague was married to one, but got divorced when he drifted away from it. I liked both of them, and the children were awesome kids. At school we had both kinds, those that would try to convert me at parent-teacher conferences, and the more sensible great parents. I got to know them a little better, because I was the supervising teacher for the JWs and the Muslims when the rest of the school did Christmas concert. The people of the damned met in the library and played games.

Boss has a cousin in it, and she's okay. But my last experience was a yelling at by a mom who sent her kid to my door to proseltyise, and when I pointed to the no-soliciting sign, the mom tore a strip off me for 'being rude'. So it's mixed. I try to look at the individual somewhat, but some are programmed robots so those ones are all the same.

But the only truly growing group regarding religion are the nones.

 

[CG Didymus]

You mentioned WWI............
Now, since you mentioned it, and since the Western Allies were in conflict with the Turks in Palestine, and since Abdul Baha somehow 'spirited' unbelievable amounts of wealth and possessions, later being rewarded by the British Government for his 'assistance and services', would you like to enlarge upon this?

How is it that they acquired the land in Haifa and had the money to build those fancy buildings?

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes. Bad omens for Watchtower as new Yearbook shows decreases for Canada, Australia and much of Europe - JWsurvey

I have mixed feelings. A former colleague was married to one, but got divorced when he drifted away from it. I liked both of them, and the children were awesome kids. At school we had both kinds, those that would try to convert me at parent-teacher conferences, and the more sensible great parents. I got to know them a little better, because I was the supervising teacher for the JWs and the Muslims when the rest of the school did Christmas concert. The people of the damned met in the library and played games.

Boss has a cousin in it, and she's okay. But my last experience was a yelling at by a mom who sent her kid to my door to proseltyise, and when I pointed to the no-soliciting sign, the mom tore a strip off me for 'being rude'. So it's mixed. I try to look at the individual somewhat, but some are programmed robots so those ones are all the same.

"Programmed" that's exactly what's happening. Those religions that believe they have the best or only truth have to teach the new believers exactly what that truth is. So with Baha'is more and more they have to align themselves with Baha'i thinking.

Which isn't bad if it's the truth, but is it? Is all of it? Since all those types of religions believe and teach different things, some or all of them have be wrong. So we've got programmed robots going around locked in to one way of thinking and unable to think outside of their religions box.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The meaning is not that Baha'u'llah's knowledge of the world and its history is identical to God's knowledge of the same, but rather that God, the unknowable, has decreed that our knowing (recognizing and loving, not just "knowing about") the Manifestation of God is -- in God's eyes -- identical to our knowing/recognizing/loving God.

I would agree the passage says the knowing "the Manifestation of God is -- in God's eyes -- identical to our knowing/recognizing/loving God."

Then in all Logic, that would say we then recognise the Manifestation, we also recognise that the Manifestation holds all the knowledge.

"..We beseech God to strengthen thee with His power, and enable thee to recognize Him Who is the Source of all knowledge, that thou mayest detach thyself from all human learning, for, “what would it profit any man to strive after learning when he hath already found and recognized Him Who is the Object of all knowledge?”

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

How is it that they acquired the land in Haifa and had the money to build those fancy buildings?

I don't know!
And I don't know what services were extended to the Brit government for King Greorge Vth to present Abdul Baha with a senior order of knighthood.
They didn't hand out those particular awards for merely charitable services. That order was awarded to foreign Presidents, Royals, great names, UK heroes of very senior rank (only) etc.

This whole subject is glazed over in a dismissive way, which suggests that it was unhelpful for Bahai.

And Abdul Baha's finances must have been huge.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I absolutely know I know nothing. My first 2 or 3 adventures into Abrahamism were so offputting I stopped looking at all. When the very basic tenets makes no sense to me, why continue?

I offer a short maybe,

I see they balance each other. From no structure to rigid structure, there is a balance in the Middle.

To me It is the Balance Baha'u'llah offers and in doing so, the rigid become less rigid and vice versa.

I see many great things in Hinduisim, but without structure, the flow will never be controlled.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

This could be dangerous for me to post as its morning time here (The weekend so no work). Hopefully I exited right side of my be, as opposed the wrong!

I absolutely know I know nothing. My first 2 or 3 adventures into Abrahamism were so offputting I stopped looking at all. When the very basic tenets makes no sense to me, why continue?

I think you do know quite a bit, but what you do know hasn't really clicked for you and you have been turned off. You remind me of one of my in-laws who has grown up in a Christian country, has developed an aversion to Christianity, and has become much more enamoured with Buddhism instead. For some people its easier to embrace an exotic religion that is not part of our own culture than the old familiar tune that has begun to grate. I personally would find rejecting the religion of my ancestors and my homeland a huge loss. So although I chose to become a Baha'i instead of Christian, the Baha'i Faith has enabled to appreciate and love Christianity and Christians, even the fundies.

As there are fundamental errors in Baha'i presentations about other religions. Besides, this was just one evangelical church's response. There are hundreds, and I'm sure many do a better job.

Baha'is don't go around creating dedicated websites attacking other religions and calling them false. Most of our websites are positive about Hinduism though we generally don't have a lot to say. Baha'is are generally interested to learn about other religions and why wouldn't we be interested in Hinduism?

I'm sure there are Christian sites that have more accurate information than the one discussed. However they are still trying to do a hatchet job, trying to prove the Baha'i Faith to be a false religion.

 

[Vinayaka]

I offer a short maybe,

I see they balance each other.

What balances what?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not at all. It's fun. Unlike you, who has to work, I'm retired so have more time. It seems to me it's most of the Baha'is squirming here. But like any good debate, one side squirms. None of the non-Baha'is have left in anger ... yet.

Neither has any Baha'i. It is not anger that a Baha'i considers in this matter, but the wisdom given by Baha'u'llah. Why feed the fire of negation? The Bab and Baha'u'llah has brought Affirmation and commanded we embrace Affirmation.

Each of us fights our own self against that wisdom. When to discuss and when to leave a person with their own thoughts.

Why fuel the fire of negation? There is not one Bahai that can change the heart of another, nor any person of any other Faith. We are told if the Message is rejected and Affirmation is replaced with negation, then leave people to themselves. When we do, the fire of negation is not fed and does not burn either party, when we do not, the fire of negation grows and It burns both of us.

It is our love for your welfare that we should not feed negation and try to make a wise choice in discussion. In that light I offer any exchange in the future of ideas based in affirmation.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is a verse that says that no man knows the hour or the day. Another that says when it happens, it will be obvious... Like lighting flashing. Another says the dead in Christ will rise first then those that are alive will rise and meet Jesus in the air. So there's more to consider then just the date and time prophecies.

Correct but boy they got the year. What a bounty that was.

Obvious is bound in Gods time not mans time and it is up to us to unravel the Spiritual visions of Christs Return into a material understanding. There is a key you must find and it must be you.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

This could be dangerous for me to post as its morning time here (The weekend so no work). Hopefully I exited right side of my be, as opposed the wrong!

I think you do know quite a bit, but what you do know hasn't really clicked for you and you have been turned off.

Your posts are sensible most of the time. I don't think you have the morning grumps.

I was raised atheist. What I do know I get from places like this forum. I went to two Christian services (other than family weddings) in my youth, exploring. One was a Christmas eve where the townsfolk held candles in a show of dedication to their lord. Trouble is we knew the drunks, the adulterers, and the people who didn't pay their bills. It was some silly show of hypocrisy. The other was to escort an old Aunt who complained all the way home about the pastor's talk, and the way he dressed. I though religion was supposed to uplift people, but instead it seemed to encourage anger and depression. That was it. I've never read the Bible, not even started, nor tried. But yes, the people whom I've met who claim to b e Christian are indeed a varied lot, and you're right that it certainly has never clicked with me. My Guru's answer to my wife one day says it all. She asked 'How come some people do this while I do this ....?" His answer was simple yet so wise. "______, that's cause you're a Hindu." So the reason it hasn't clicked and never will click is that I'm a Hindu. Born in the west for some karma or dharma unknown consciously, this soul has been in that paradigm for a very long time, many lifetimes. Others haven't.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I was raised atheist. What I do know I get from places like this forum. I went to two Christian services (other than family weddings) in my youth, exploring. One was a Christmas eve where the townsfolk held candles in a show of dedication to their lord. Trouble is we knew the drunks, the adulterers, and the people who didn't pay their bills. It was some silly show of hypocrisy. The other was to escort an old Aunt who complained all the way home about the pastor's talk, and the way he dressed. I though religion was supposed to uplift people, but instead it seemed to encourage anger and depression. That was it. I've never read the Bible, not even started, nor tried. But yes, the people whom I've met who claim to b e Christian are indeed a varied lot, and you're right that it certainly has never clicked with me. My Guru's answer to my wife one day says it all. She asked 'How come some people do this while I do this ....?" His answer was simple yet so wise. "______, that's cause you're a Hindu." So the reason it hasn't clicked and never will click is that I'm a Hindu. Born in the west for some karma or dharma unknown consciously, this soul has been in that paradigm for a very long time, many lifetimes. Others haven't.

That is so sincere and touching, I felt it from across the globe.

 

[Dawnofhope]

There is a verse that says that no man knows the hour or the day. Another that says when it happens, it will be obvious... Like lighting flashing. Another says the dead in Christ will rise first then those that are alive will rise and meet Jesus in the air. So there's more to consider then just the date and time prophecies.

There is always more to consider. It never ends. Obviously when Jesus spoke those words no one did know the hour or the day. However once He came a few of us twigged! There were even a few who had foresight and intuitively knew the time was near.

Strange how the Baha'i faith spread so quickly throughout the earth. The lightening flashing symbolises the power from heaven (God) not just speed, unless you want to infer the speed of light literally.

I don't know if you've noticed but quite a few posting on this thread are 'dead in Christ'. I was and when I became a Baha'i I rose from my spiritual death and met Jesus in the spiritual realm.

Prophecies, prophecies, when will they end?

1 Corinthians 13:8

 

[oldbadger]

I'm sure there are Christian sites that have more accurate information than the one discussed. However they are still trying to do a hatchet job, trying to prove the Baha'i Faith to be a false religion.

Interestingly, although RF has many faithful and strong Muslims from Shi'ite, Sunni and Amaddiyyha sections, I have not seen a post from any to attack Bahai here. Maybe they left the thread before arrived....
And not many Christians have criticised Bahai here.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I don't know how Revs made it into the bible.
If that was published now I think most critics would write it off as the product of an hallucinating junkie.
But, hey, work it......... work it......!

The book of Revelation can sound at times like someone's LSD trip. They call them magic mushrooms here, and psilocybin is the main hallucinogen.

Some scholars estimate that 30% of the bible is prophetic and the apocalyptic style in revelation appears in other books. Even Jesus spoke in this manner on the Mount of Olives during His final days.
Matthew 24

But I like best Paul's words:

Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1 Corinthians 1:20-25

 

[oldbadger]

....
.............. One was a Christmas eve where the townsfolk held candles in a show of dedication to their lord. Trouble is we knew the drunks, the adulterers, and the people who didn't pay their bills. It was some silly show of hypocrisy.

In my teens we would go to Christmas Eve Midnight Carols at the local Church, and .... yes...... I remember a drunken man falling across the aisle and needing assistance.

But a few months ago in the summer, whilst out on an early morning cycling trip, I happened across a Church with an open door. I parked my bike and attempted to go inside to sit down somewhere. It was just after 0800hrs. An elderly lady had hold of me before I had passed through the doorway, whispering instructions louder than a car horn to me that I should join the congregation of about three up in the choristry where a female priest was delivering a service. When I whispered back that I just wanted to sit at the back and listen in, the old dear foghorned, 'Oh No! She wouldn't like that!' and began to thrust me forward. I turned, pointed to the door and said, 'Look!' and as the old dear turned I extricated myself....... and fled! Nope..... not going back.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Interestingly, although RF has many faithful and strong Muslims from Shi'ite, Sunni and Amaddiyyha sections, I have not seen a post from any to attack Bahai here. Maybe they left the thread before arrived....
And not many Christians have criticised Bahai here.

I have had a few spirited debates with 1Robin

Problems with the Baha'i faith

 

[Dawnofhope]

I've been thinking about this, and seem to remember that I have asked about Pharisees before, and not heard any strong responses.

The gospels bang on about the Pharisees but I feel sure that both the Baptist's and Yeshua's issues were with the official priesthood.

Pharisees could have influence, but only had official powers if they were also Levites in lower positions or Levites in the priesthood.

I have never heard a clear description or explanation of or about Pharisees, and don't expect to get one after all this time on RF.

I had quite a long chat to Tumah on this thread:

If the Jewish Messiah has already come….

I was new to RF and I inadvertently stepped into a debate between Christians and Jews, stepping on quite a few toes in the process.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm sure there are Christian sites that have more accurate information than the one discussed. However they are still trying to do a hatchet job, trying to prove the Baha'i Faith to be a false religion.

I agree. It's part of their faith. But again I see a double standard. It's okay for Baha'i to not accept the teachings as is, and then go ahead and alter it so it is more suited to Baha'i. At least that's the gist of it, looking into parts of this thread as an outsider, having no idea who's right about the Bible, in discussions on this thread I don't participate in, because of my biblical ignorance. Of course we're all free to interpret stuff any way we want to.