How are these Great Beings explained?

[TransmutingSoul]

we don't need law , our country is doing a good job making laws. Maybe god sent bah ullah for just somalia or middle east, regional god sent.. just like u said gndj is a regional guru.

It appears your country is not doing so well. It is on the news here in Australia quite often, the stories are not so good.

Regards Tony

 

[RoaringSilence]

It appears your country is not doing so well. It is on the news here in Australia quite often, the stories are not so good.

Regards Tony

kindly point out one recent news about bad laws from india and what is being done about it. a law without a corrective action in place to amend it or anything that is absolute and is wrong in our constitution.

all your replies are pretty vague and blanket statements mostly baseless ... i am not satisfied with any of the answers i get. i don't know if others would agree with me on this ..

**************** if others feel that the replies don't do justice ..please mark this post as winner to indicate your vote.**********

 

[Dawnofhope]

kindly point out one recent news about bad laws from india and what is being done about it. a law without a corrective action in place to amend it or anything that is absolute and is wrong in our constitution.

all your replies are pretty vague and blanket statements mostly baseless ... i am not satisfied with any of the answers i get. i don't know if others would agree with me on this ..

**************** if others feel that the replies don't do justice ..please mark this post as winner to indicate your vote.**********

I don't really know what is happening in your country and if you are satisfied then well and good. India has many positives.

Surely wisdom is one of the great fruits of the spiritual path and that is applicable in every aspect of life, including making decisions with parents, families, work, communities, and even the running of governments.

Probably the greatest challenges of communities are for countries to cooperate better to address global challenges.

I don't think there is anything vague that we are saying but you are welcome to your opinion.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I didn't type/say fusion. I say what I mean and I mean what I say.

I believe you.

What I said is there are totally different cooks there's just receiving one group of ingredients that each cook fashions a different way. So it may look like different foods and tastes, in actuality, it is not. I disagree with this. Has nothing to do with fusion.

Just making a statement. (Like I tell @Tony Bristow-Stagg I'm just making a statement of fact not a fact of argument) But good discussion nonetheless.

I may have come in on the conversation late and missed something important. Its an interesting analogy through.

But, yeah, you threw me off there. Yeah, America has a lot of cultural appropriation and justifies it in many ways. It is not all religious in nature. Just I notice culture and religion are embedded hence the sensitivities of the issues. I wasn't raised strong in my culture but of course you have people here that are so I'd assume Bahai view would have a greater affect on them than me. I just like to learn by questioning different viewpoints. I wasn't raised religious to form bad/good or right/wrong opinions based from faith.

When it comes to religion, each religion has a narrative or story that speaks about the nature of reality, what it means to be human, and the best path to achieving what we come to understand the purpose of life to be. The challenge is globalisation and multiculturalism. Now we have much more diverse communities, more intermingling of peopes that are very different from each other. We become much more aware of each others beliefs and worldviews. Inevitably there are differences and tensions as one worldview seems to suggest superiority over another. One group feels marginalised, another misiuderstood, and yet another misrepresented.

Edit: Also, your question to Vinakaya. Yes, Buddhism "atheist" view depending on the school is depending on how heavy the atheism view is was a response to The Buddha not agreeing with Hindu beliefs and the Hindu god. He was born and raised Hindu and realized that the practices didn't relieve people from suffering so he renounced his status and decided to teach on a people-level. There are suttas about his conversation with Brahma if you're interested.

Thanks for that. I would be very interested in those suttas.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

kindly point out one recent news about bad laws from india and what is being done about it. a law without a corrective action in place to amend it or anything that is absolute and is wrong in our constitution.

all your replies are pretty vague and blanket statements mostly baseless ... i am not satisfied with any of the answers i get. i don't know if others would agree with me on this ..

**************** if others feel that the replies don't do justice ..please mark this post as winner to indicate your vote.**********

I give you a winner and leave it at that.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, that description reflects the multiplicity of concepts, but for me, somehow lacks the fire of importance to individuals, and centrality to the religion. It has that 'outsider' feel to it.

I can appreciate that outsider feel. I've been a Baha'i for over 27 years so have a sense when someone who isn't a Baha'i is making a statement about Baha'i. You must feel that as a Hindu, and so I'm aware that the posts to you about Hinduism must seem strange and completely miss the mark at times.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Still, there is a huge difference between your drinker example and someone who is gay. One has been proven time and again by science to be alterable (still there is some evidence of a genetic disposition to alcoholism, but it's not overwhelming) whereas science has overwhelmingly proven homosexuality is normal for some, and not alterable.

I would be really cautious about drawing that conclusion. The momentum at present is certainly with biologically based theories that strongly suggest homosexuality unalterable for some, but it is far from conclusive.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is important to learn from the wise. The Great Beings are a good point of reference.

Regards Tony

If you get a chance have a watch of this program from SBS.

"The ascent of civilisation", The arabs".

Most likely be available after tonight. It was a great Balanced Program on the Influence of Islam and the Education it brought.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I can appreciate that outsider feel. I've been a Baha'i for over 27 years so have a sense when someone who isn't a Baha'i is making a statement about Baha'i. You must feel that as a Hindu, and so I'm aware that the posts to you about Hinduism must seem strange and completely miss the mark at times.

There is almost always a detectable lack of certainty, unfamiliarity, distance feel. Sometimes it's far worse than others, like with spelling mistakes of the simplest concepts to the adherent.

 

[Vinayaka]

I would be really cautious about drawing that conclusion. The momentum at present is certainly with biologically based theories that strongly suggest homosexuality unalterable for some, but it is far from conclusive.

Yes, you give the standard fundamentalist line. I suspected you would. Same for fundamentalist Christians and Muslims. When the dogma says what it says, what choice do you have? Science isn't an option when you have infallibility of prophets and of the holy books. So I will refuse to be 'careful' as you put it. I'll go with science instead.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...l-evidence-for-the-genetics-of-homosexuality/

 

[Vinayaka]

of baiting with lavish styles. try to view things from my prospective and it wouldn't feel wrong that why i ask these questions.

Baiting is the key here. Beautiful building, but empty philosophy (for Hindus especially). It's like dating a person because of their looks, and then discovering he/she is some angry lunatic. So for these temples, it's assuming people are stupid enough to be duped by appearances only. And indeed some are ... for awhile anyway. Most do learn their mistake and get out though.

You're right.

 

[Vinayaka]

I do see it from your perspective but that is not where the Baha'is are coming from. We simply offer a temple where peoples of differing faiths can come together and worship.

Most Hindus need a central focal point, a deity, so by definition, we're excluded, as it has nothing to offer us.

 

[Vinayaka]

I do see it from your perspective

I certainly don't think you do. Only a practicing Hindu would get that. One can claim they do, which of course is different.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I do see it from your perspective but that is not where the Baha'is are coming from. We simply offer a temple where peoples of differing faiths can come together and worship.

This is interesting. In the U.S. this would never fly, though. Ha.

There are Bahai temples here. If I came as a Catholic to worship, how would I worship? Our god is not the same. You don't have Mass which is essential to worship in any Catholic Church. You don't have the Eucharist (Jesus Christ). You don't have priests that act in the role of Christ. You believe in prophets that are not part of The Body of Christ. The only thing you guys have in common is belief in a creator. Unless the Catholic is very very, uuum, very flexible like the one I saw when I was at my buddhist zen center years ago, how does that worship work?

With Buddhist, similar concept but depending on the school. We can worship without The Buddha statue, of course. Though, in all temples I've gone to there is always an idol point of reference. When a Buddhist comes into a Bahai temple and hears people worship god, how is he supposed to react with the core of the worship?

I mean, I went in Mosques, Unitarian Universalist Church, and Halls and "worshiped" by my hospitality and like willingness to learn but the word worship goes beyond that. (Goes beyond the restaurant and eating at the same table) So, how would a very observant Buddhist worship with a Catholic and a Bahai?

What's the central nature of their worship when they do not agree with Bahai tenants and, rightfully so, disagree that both parties have nothing to do with each other in faith?

Since one doesn't need to be Bahai to worship (as said months ago), how do you worship with people who aren't on the same page?

Here's the link: The Brahma Invitation and Brahma-Nimantanika Sutta (Summary)

I certainly don't think you do. Only a practicing Hindu would get that. One can claim they do, which of course is different.

Vinayaka, this seems like a catch twenty-two.

If only Hindu understand what you're saying, then if one Bahai says "let's take it to the next level of convo" how would you do so if you don't put faith in the other party's willingness to understand?

Is it more productive to educate them about Hinduism because I do not think they will ever understand what it means without practice but if only a Hindu can get "what you just said," what are you two actually discussing in which both of you-and us-can learn from?

 

[Vinayaka]

Carlita, I'm talking about knowing from experience, not from books. I person who has never had a baby simply can't understand what it's like to have a baby. They can claim to have that understanding, but they really can't. A person who has never faced discrimination because of gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. can never really get it.

So when a Baha'i' says to a Hindu, 'I can understand where you're coming from,' I'm suspicious. If the person, OTOH, had actually experienced Hinduism, by once being one, sure. So for Adrian, for example, I do trust that he understands Christianity. But Hinduism? ... nah.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita, I'm talking about knowing from experience, not from books. I person who has never had a baby simply can't understand what it's like to have a baby. They can claim to have that understanding, but they really can't. A person who has never faced discrimination because of gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. can never really get it.

So when a Baha'i' says to a Hindu, 'I can understand where you're coming from,' I'm suspicious. If the person, OTOH, had actually experienced Hinduism, by once being one, sure. So for Adrian, for example, I do trust that he understands Christianity. But Hinduism? ... nah.

I think the phrase "I understand..." is saying more I understand enough to follow the conversation. We know they don't understand internally and two or three, can't remember, of them admit they don't, so I'd say when they use the phase it's in a totally different context than how you're understanding it.

I know when I was suffering through depression, one of the tips was never tell the person you understand because no matter if you went through depression or not, the experience is different for everyone. One thing I notice on the Pagan boards is they don't want to "side with people" in their understanding of the same umbrella. They want to keep their individualism even though they may believe in the same gods and theme.

In my point of view, that is where empathy comes from. When you don't understand by experience but you can understand because you both have the same aura and can experience each other's emotions.

Now that I think of it, it is just like that. My two brothers and I (skipped over my sister for some reason) can pick up on people's emotions. My brother says he sees colors around people. That type of thing. It's not completely psychological, though I wish then I could turn it off.

I don't know how to explain it. If I go around certain people I don't need to know them, see them, or talk to them, and I get a buzzer run up my body. Something like a flight and fright response but in a way you know mentally why you responded rather than an automatic response. Having that all day every day is exhausting so I don't go out often unless I need to.

I used to do empathy prayers with my whole body ("pagan rituals", if one likes) and I'd literally break down crying. Of course, online is near but impossible to get to that stage but I'm sure there are words that people can understand intellectually even though they don't understand it internally.

I notice that it's better to connect with people on an experiential level online. Like when loved ones passed away we may have an experiential connection that no "like" can express. Some of us probably stared and figured whether we should say Like, Heart, or Let it be. It's probably a reason I like to write.

But expression by experience-say poetry, Egar Allen Poe's the Raven is a great one-sends more signals than Bahaullah says this or Vishnu means that.

That's why I use a lot of analogies (hint hint guys) because, well, that's how The Buddha taught and even more so, if people don't understand by direct language, there are other approaches to getting your message across--if you want to.

If this was done months ago, I'd hope everyone would have a better conversation and everyone involved.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita, I'm talking about knowing from experience, not from books. I person who has never had a baby simply can't understand what it's like to have a baby. They can claim to have that understanding, but they really can't. A person who has never faced discrimination because of gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. can never really get it.

So when a Baha'i' says to a Hindu, 'I can understand where you're coming from,' I'm suspicious. If the person, OTOH, had actually experienced Hinduism, by once being one, sure. So for Adrian, for example, I do trust that he understands Christianity. But Hinduism? ... nah.

Oh.. have to buzz me since I don't read all of you guys conversations daily. The @Carlita doesn't work on this computer for some reason, but the quotes work fine.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think the phrase "I understand..." is saying more I understand enough to follow the conversation. We know they don't understand internally and two or three, can't remember, of them admit they don't, so I'd say when they use the phase it's in a totally different context than how you're understanding it.

My brother says he sees colors around people. That type of thing. It's not completely psychological, though I wish then I could turn it off.

Thank you. as always, for your insight. Yes, I realise there is a difference in how we all understand the word 'understand'. In Hinduism, you're nothing without the experience. So my version reflects my paradigm. Similar too with memorization.

I believe your brother is seeing auras. It's an esoteric art in Hinduism. Does he have any reference material as to what each colour means?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you. as always, for your insight. Yes, I realise there is a difference in how we all understand the word 'understand'. In Hinduism, you're nothing without the experience. So my version reflects my paradigm. Similar too with memorization.

I believe your brother is seeing auras. It's an esoteric art in Hinduism. Does he have any reference material as to what each colour means?

He hadn't talked with me about it much at the time. I haven't spoken to him in awhile. I think he was interested in the Chakras before but I don't know if he seriously researched it beyond his video games at the time to escape from his immediate environment. I haven't spoken to him in awhile.

I kinda wish he could have explained it to me more. I read about auras and chakras online but never had the experience. Mine is, what do they call it, clairsentience. I don't know. Never really looked into it. Houses of worship have high energies, for example. People call it different words for that energ(ies).

With the experience first, thing, it's like saying "you have to get hit by a car to learn what it means to not cross the street during traffic" type of thing. I was never an advocate of experience-first. I just think we don't have the language, trust, patience, and in some ways interest in good deep dialogue.

One thing that pulled me to The Buddha Dhamma is The Buddha (and monks, nuns, etc) interest in people and how to get the Dhamma across to people from different cultures and worldviews. I was watching a t.v. interview with the Dalai Lama answering questions from the audience he had did lectures with. Using "western" language to get eastern concepts across is very challenging. It takes a lot of patience.

Of course we're not all religious clergy, but one thing that stuck out with Bahai nonetheless is the separation between themselves and "great beings." If one cannot experience the salvation of christ or the experiences of a Hindu, how can one see the extreme difference between the two faiths regardless if they use the same words for easy conversation.

 

[CG Didymus]

That accusation could be attributed to what Christ came and said to the Jews, he brought the correct way to think about all the Scriptures that the Jews were custodians of, he showed them a different frame of reference how to consider those scriptures.

Muhammad did the same. He showed the Christains and Jews they had also given wrong meaning to scripture. The Bab and Baha'u'llah likewise have done as all Mesengers in the past have done, offered a different frame of reference.

Man gets it wrong. Time to put our hands up and admit, boy we get it wrong often.

Thank God for His Messnegers. They set it right.

This is what it is to give way to adolescent and move to an adult. We become mature enough to know we do not know it all and we do make mistakes and are willing to learn from those that do know.

Regards Tony

So your Mom reads the NT and it tells her that salvation is only in Jesus. You know the story. The Law cannot save a person... That Satan the devil is trying to confuse and trick them... that all people are hopelessly lost in their sins... But, God provided the perfect sacrifice, Jesus. And He is coming back. The dead in Christ will rise first, then those, still living, will be caught up to might Jesus in the air...

What is all this? This is all from the NT. Jesus didn't set any thing right, if the Baha'is are right. He made things more confusing. The Law gets abolished and people are taught they are hopeless sinners? No, the NT is completely wrong and misleading... if the Baha'is are correct.