How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

It's a question someone asked Baha'u'llah directly about some practices of Hinduism on conversion.

I'm not advising you just sharing with you some comments made by Baha'u'llah Himself about Hindu practices. He spoke about some other Hindu things too.

I read it in an official translation of some of His Writings. I didn't quote it because you don't like quotes but He did mention other things about Hinduism as well in response to questions asked.

So then Baha'u'llah was an expert on Hinduism? I can certainly see how he would want Hindus to take to proselytising. It's classic belief projection. If you think it's okay, then encourage everyone else to do it.

But the problem is, Baha'ullah is no expert on Hinduism, and disagrees with many of the fundamental stuff like reincarnation. Do you also think Hindus should be listening to what Muhammed said? Should we be out breaking all our false idols now?

Which reminds me, what do Baha'i's believe about using murthies (mystically enlivened statues) for worship?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Does greater peace depend on Bahaullah's teachings?

Bahaullah as in does god need to be the foundation to make greater peace? (not lesser, greater)

Abrahamic god-religions, again, define "choice" differently than other religions do. There is always a disbenefit (or in some religions consequence) for not choosing god. In other religions, choice does not have a "peace or no peace" black and white view.

It's a cultural outlook about black and white thinking. Nothing wrong with it, you jjust don't see it.

The Most Great Peace we are told, is when the people of the world will CHOOSE to be governed by Baha'u'llah's World Order.

The religions at that time will CHOOSE to unite and become one religion.

It will be a spiritual peace based on love and brotherhood whereas the political peace to be established soon will just be an end to war but not an end to corruption or prejudices or hatreds between races and religions. It will be a lot better than now but not a unity based on love only politics mainly.

That's how I understand it. Without quoting, it's difficult to explain it all so please don't rush to objections as this subject needs much deep discussion to be properly understood and I'm not a professional writer.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes this was the expectation. the expectation got the date right but got the signs wrong. We do not live in the mid 1800's, if we had done so, we too, if we were spiritually inclined, would have been caught up in the expectations that the world was moving towards a big event.

Believe me, we today are not special nor different in regards to being human in the 1800s. I mean, I don't have an issue with people who believe in god(s); and, I also know that we haven't advanced from believing in gods before the 1800s till now. People still believe in a lot of things I see in the mythology and history books.

The 21st century is no more isolated than we thought the 20th century was. All ego.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So then Baha'u'llah was an expert on Hinduism? I can certainly see how he would want Hindus to take to proselytising. It's classic belief projection. If you think it's okay, then encourage everyone else to do it.

But the problem is, Baha'ullah is no expert on Hinduism, and disagrees with many of the fundamental stuff like reincarnation. Do you also think Hindus should be listening to what Muhammed said? Should we be out breaking all our false idols now?

Which reminds me, what do Baha'i's believe about using murthies (mystically enlivened statues) for worship?

Yes. Baha'u'llah had complete knowledge of all things in the universe.

If you feel Baha'u'llah and Muhammad are not true or not from God then you shouldn't believe in them and just go your own way.

So, no, you shouldn't smash your statues. To you they are your gods so you should continue to worship them freely.

Murthies - we don't worship statues but for instance some of these statues are made with so much love and represent such beautiful art that of course we are not forbidden from having them in our homes.

I adore all Hindu art in Hindu books. When I see it's beauty and how much the artist loved His Faith it makes me love it more.

Actually do you have such thing as Hindu art for the home???

But images are not just referring to statues. For instance today pornography is the worst form of idol worship that should be destroyed and abolished completely while beautiful Hindu statues should be treated with respect and their art appreciated as a beautiful diversity of cultures.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

These are not choise-statements. These are ultimatum statements.

2 The Most Great Peace is the brotherhoods of man when the world will have accepted the Bahá'í Faith and will be governed by the Bahá'í system. All religions will become one united religion.

"When the world will accept the Bahai faith and will be governed by the Bahai system"... "if humanity never accepts Bahaullah then it won't happen".

But this Most Great Peace is dependent on the people. If humanity never accepts Baha'u'llah then it won't happen. But there will still be peace.

It is not wrong that you have an ultimatum belief system. Abrahamic god belief systems work like this. The problem is you don't see differences and the value of challenging opposing views and expressive thereof; therefore, you don't see at the very least how your belief system operates.

It's fine that you can't see this. The frustrating part about it is if you keep saying this repeatedly without going out of your comfort zone and speaking outside of your preference to get me to understand what you're saying. We communicate differently-everyone.

How do you expect people to understand if you don't attempt or have interest to speak "their language."?

 

[loverofhumanity]

These are not choise-statements. These are ultimatum statements.



"When the world will accept the Bahai faith and will be governed by the Bahai system"... "if humanity never accepts Bahaullah then it won't happen".



It is not wrong that you have an ultimatum belief system. Abrahamic god belief systems work like this. The problem is you don't see differences and the value of challenging opposing views and expressive thereof; therefore, you don't see at the very least how your belief system operates.

It's fine that you can't see this. The frustrating part about it is if you keep saying this repeatedly without going out of your comfort zone and speaking outside of your preference to get me to understand what you're saying. We communicate differently-everyone.

How do you expect people to understand if you don't attempt or have interest to speak "their language."?

I'm trying and still learning.

Please don't take every word I write as gospel truth because I may use the wrong verb or adjective resulting in you misconstruing or misunderstanding what I meant.

I should always say IF the people of the Word ever choose the Bahá'í Shstem not when because I mean IF. Look now how people have been left alone so much that Bahá'í numbers are even not growing much so we are leaving it up to people and so far people don't like what they see and are saying they don't want us or our Faith.

We accept that and just try to be better people. But you are most patient.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That does not mean anything outside of race, nationality, culture, language, and religion.

It depends what you believe about the nature of human. In Bahai View, human beings have two natures; Animal Nature and Spiritual Nature. The body itself have an animal nature but our soul, is what makes us human, in a sense that Spiritual qualities come from our Spirit. In Bahai View, our Reality is Spirituality, rather than just the physical body. Thus, this Spirit of us, which is our reality, has nothing to do with race, nationality, gender,...etc.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm trying and still learning.

Please don't take every word I write as gospel truth because I may use the wrong verb or adjective resulting in you misconstruing or misunderstanding what I meant.

I should always say IF the people of the Word ever choose the Bahá'í Shstem not when because I mean IF. Look now how people have been left alone so much that Bahá'í numbers are even not growing much so we are leaving it up to people and so far people don't like what they see and are saying they don't want us or our Faith.

We accept that and just try to be better people. But you are most patient.

Yes, if statements help me understand. I learn better with hypotheticals. It tells me the context of what you're saying. I disagree, of course, that if people choose to accept Bahai system they will have greater world peace. Regardless if it's the person's choice or not, saying greater peace is only dependent on Bahai system by default saying bahai is needed and no other system will work.

I dont think you can see it. It's there, though.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Believe me, we today are not special nor different in regards to being human in the 1800s. I mean, I don't have an issue with people who believe in god(s); and, I also know that we haven't advanced from believing in gods before the 1800s till now. People still believe in a lot of things I see in the mythology and history books.

Carlita, that is just it, I have done the research and do not have to take your word for it. It is oh so easy to think that people in the 1800's thought as we do now. That is a manifest and gross error.

There is no way the world vision we now take for granted could have been formed in any mind in the 1800's, except in Two Manifestations from God and the Son of One of these Manifestations. It is from this source that a world embracing wisdom and expectation was born, Baha'u'llah has written "Let your vision be world-embracing". All His writings are World Embracing, well before it became a reality in the minds of man.

These concepts have been built over the last few generations, they were born in the early to mid 1800's with the unfolding of this world embracing message, That Message embracing all thought and not limited to a single specific subject.

The 21st century is no more isolated than we thought the 20th century was. All ego.

Yes, that we do not search all things with justice, can only be attributed to the our ego that we hold dear to.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, if statements help me understand. I learn better with hypotheticals. It tells me the context of what you're saying. I disagree, of course, that if people choose to accept Bahai system they will have greater world peace. Regardless if it's the person's choice or not, saying greater peace is only dependent on Bahai system by default saying bahai is needed and no other system will work.

I dont think you can see it. It's there, though.

Yes we can see it and say the Most Great Peace is acknowledgement of the majority of the System given by Baha'u'llah. We know this will now be well into the future' and thus is not an issue for this day.

This day requires the Lesser Peace to which this does no need the full acceptance of the Message of Baha'u'llah.

It requires mankind to come to terms with its Unity. That it is that we are one Human Race on the Planet earth and to be disunited will bring the destruction of the planet.

We have to urgently start to work together as a unified race to repair the damage made to this planet. Climate change will destroy many things very quickly. Man will be forced to change if they do not do it in a unity of purpose.

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I disagree, of course, that if people choose to accept Bahai system they will have greater world peace.

Certainly if people of the world choose to become Bahai, the world peace as well as unity of Mankind will be established...now, I do not say this from a bias point of view, as it may seem. But as you may know, or may not know, the Bahais of the World are united and are following One and the Same universal Leadership, which is the Universal House of Justice. Bahaullah took a covenant from Bahais, that they must All obey and Follow universal House of Justice. Thus, this is how Bahai Faith is free from divisions and schism, and when you think if all people choose to be Bahais and accept the covenant of Bahaullah, then All people of the World will be united. As you may know, disunity is the Cause of War, and when there is no disunity, the world will be peaceful. Even now, the Bahais have peace among themselves, because all are under the same leadership.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I dont think you can see it. It's there, though.

Think of this way too. If the whole world is under one and the same Leadership, then, the Universal Government, will divide the treasures of the earth fairly among different countries...for example, today, some countries naturally have more oil and other natural wealth, such a Mines or Trees...but some other countries are poor with this regards. How is that fair, that just because a people are born in a poorer country, should also continue being poor, while some other people born in a richer country be just more rich? No, the treasures of earth belongs to all humanity, regardless where they are born. Thus, when there is a Universal government that All must Obey, It will justly divide the Oil, Mines and other treasures between all people, and there will be a just world. This is why Bahaullah about 150 years ago wrote:

"The earth is but One Country and Mankind its Citizens."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Certainly if people of the world choose to become Bahai, the world peace as well as unity of Mankind will be established...now, I do not say this from a bias point of view, as it may seem. But as you may know, or may not know, the Bahais of the World are united and are following One and the Same universal Leadership, which is the Universal House of Justice. Bahaullah took a covenant from Bahais, that they must All obey and Follow universal House of Justice. Thus, this is how Bahai Faith is free from divisions and schism, and when you think if all people choose to be Bahais and accept the covenant of Bahaullah, then All people of the World will be united. As you may know, disunity is the Cause of War, and when there is no disunity, the world will be peaceful. Even now, the Bahais have peace among themselves, because all are under the same leadership.

Bahai, from your post, just separate (divided) itself from other religions by it's statement of "Thus, this is how Bahai Faith is free from divisions and schism, and when you think if all people choose to be Bahais and accept the covenant of Bahaullah, then All people of the World will be united."

It is not taking into consideration people's personal faith. It is also not taking into consideration, say Catholicism, where people in all their differences come together in one Mass. If anything, to me, these imperfections in Christian history to name an example tells us we are growing in faith and that is the point not the destination. It's not an end-goal journey.

I haven't been to a Bahai meeting. I just know that there is bias on this thread probably based on personal experience more so than just the religion. It's all natural. People have wars etc in the name of their faith. Their faith doesn't make people go into wars.

Disunity isn't the problem. It's natural to not be unified because we are all different people with different goals. If we don't accept that without reconciling other people's differences, then we won't get anywhere together.​

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Think of this way too. If the whole world is under one and the same Leadership, then, the Universal Government, will divide the treasures of the earth fairly among different countries...for example, today, some countries naturally have more oil and other natural wealth, such a Mines or Trees...but some other countries are poor with this regards. How is that fair, that just because a people are born in a poorer country, should also continue being poor, while some other people born in a richer country be just more rich? No, the treasures of earth belongs to all humanity, regardless where they are born. Thus, when there is a Universal government that All must Obey, It will justly divide the Oil, Mines and other treasures between all people, and there will be a just world. This is why Bahaullah about 150 years ago wrote:

"The earth is but One Country and Mankind its Citizens."

Many countries don't like America trying to dictate their laws and customs to fit ours. They may have a "one-party system in mind" like you just quoted with Bahaullah but many countries want to have their own rules and laws.

Yes, we can work together. Again, we don't need unity to do this. Diversity is a blessing. Respecting boundaries is respectful. You can still have greater peace without reconciling differences Bahaullah feels are bad while others feel is good and healthy.

The earth is not territorial, I agree. I also believe just because we are all people doesn't make it right for my to be in my neighbor's yard. There are boundaries. A lot of people value when you respect their boundaries. This is from personal experience and being around those whose boundaries have been ran on by the majority.

Humanity (people??) is shaped by race, language, culture, etc. These cannot be separated. As such, the people have differences and because of the wars and such, some people value respect of their differences without others being a part of it (good intentioned or not).

It's just general respect for people's boundaries.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Edit

Yes we can see it and say the Most Great Peace is acknowledgement of the majority of the System given by Baha'u'llah. We know this will now be well into the future' and thus is not an issue for this day.

This day requires the Lesser Peace to which this does no need the full acceptance of the Message of Baha'u'llah.

It requires mankind to come to terms with its Unity. That it is that we are one Human Race on the Planet earth and to be disunited will bring the destruction of the planet.

We have to urgently start to work together as a unified race to repair the damage made to this planet. Climate change will destroy many things very quickly. Man will be forced to change if they do not do it in a unity of purpose.

Regards Tony

@loverofhumanity (in short)

Unity doesn't cure ills. It makes people find a common foundation they may not agree with.

Wars are caused when one person makes a decision for everyone good or bad intentioned.​

Diversity will cure ills. It leads to respect of each other's boundaries and also motivates people to learn from each other and understand the boundaries to live together for greater peace.

Wars are caused when people don't have patience to understand differences and the healthiness of diversity. It creates a I-am-better point of view.​

I find much more value in the latter. The former works on coercion, ultimatum, "you have a choice" statements, and such. It puts a lot of guilt on people.

Diversity welcomes people. It motivates people to work together and lets people work their issues out and understanding boundaries by doing so.

Unity does not do this.

We have different beliefs. Don't try to unify our differences. That is disrespectful.

That is the most simple explanation I can make it.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Holy Books contain verses that are figurative or symbolic. You would know its symbolic, when literal interpretations would be unrealistic, or contradicts science. We also know that, symbols have meanings. For example Light is Symbol of Knowledge and guidance. Now, let me give you an example, and ask you, what you think it means.

As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.
While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."
After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man's eyes."Go," he told him, "wash in the Pool of Siloam" (this word means "Sent"). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.
John 9:4-6


Do you think, when the Author of these verses was writing them, did he mean it literally, or you think, the Author is conveying a hidden message, which has some figurative meaning?

Who is the author? God, Jesus, or John? If you didn't pick out only the verses that suit your purposes, it would be evident that John starts out by saying that Jesus and the disciples passed by a blind man. So let me ask you... Were they on a "symbolic" walk or were they really walking and saw the blind man?

The author then supposedly quotes some stuff that Jesus said. Do you think, that after several years, John remembered the event and what was said exactly? Or, did he remember some of it and embellished the story a little? Later, people took the man to the Pharisees. How did John know what was said at that meeting? In verse 20 people take the man to his parents and they say that their son was born blind. You probably want it to be "spiritual" blindness. So let me ask you... Is this what the author is trying to say? Or, that the man was born physically blind and Jesus healed him?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Bahai, from your post, just separate (divided) itself from other religions by it's statement of "Thus, this is how Bahai Faith is free from divisions and schism, and when you think if all people choose to be Bahais and accept the covenant of Bahaullah, then All people of the World will be united."

It is not taking into consideration people's personal faith. It is also not taking into consideration, say Catholicism, where people in all their differences come together in one Mass. If anything, to me, these imperfections in Christian history to name an example tells us we are growing in faith and that is the point not the destination. It's not an end-goal journey.

I haven't been to a Bahai meeting. I just know that there is bias on this thread probably based on personal experience more so than just the religion. It's all natural. People have wars etc in the name of their faith. Their faith doesn't make people go into wars.

Disunity isn't the problem. It's natural to not be unified because we are all different people with different goals. If we don't accept that without reconciling other people's differences, then we won't get anywhere together.​

Humanity is One, if you consider that the reality of us, is our Spirit. Does our Spirit have race, nationality, gender..etc? I do not believe so. So, when we realize that, we are Spiritual beings, we would not see each other different, based on having different race, or nationality, etc. That is how, we can have unity in diversity. Truth sets us free!

 

[CG Didymus]

There seems to be an aweful lot of truth in most religions so we agree with it. It's not agreeing for agreements sake but because we really sincerely believe in most aspects of other Faiths.

The only things we don't believe in are things which cause harm or injury or violence.

Which Holy Books of Hinduism do you believe in?

 

[CG Didymus]

We bury our dead and have prayers for them.

Why? What good is a dead body rotting in a box? What are you going to do when the Earth gets filled with graves?