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Homosexuality / Marriage

Discussion in 'Political Debates' started by Seeker of Solomon, May 12, 2005.

  1. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    At least Bastet got my point :D
     
  2. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    It does make sense when it is your belief. I am not asking you to embrace or agree with it. But I addressed this issue from a biblical perspective and will continue to do so. In no way am I implying discrimination against people of other beliefs. I am basing my opinion on my beliefs and values as the majority of people in this society do as well. :jiggy:
     
  3. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    You have a right to your opinion and I respect that, but I disagree with you. Build your house on solid rock, not sand. :jiggy:
     
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  4. Bastet

    Bastet Vile Stove-Toucher

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    Again, I would say the same to you. :rolleyes: This, however, is not the thread to debate that, so I will comment no further on it.
     
  5. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Yes you are. You're saying that the laws of a secular government should follow the beliefs of your religion, a belief that condemns same sex couples and allows them to be treated as inferior humans. How is that not discrimination? Just because you are basing your attitude towards BGLT people on your religious beliefs doesn't make any less discriminatory and hurtful.
    The majority of people in this society 50 years ago where against equal treatment of non-whites. That's why we have the court system to insure that the laws of this secular government are equal and fair to all.
     
  6. jamaesi

    jamaesi To Save A Lamb

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    Oh, must I?


    The Bible also says that men are the head of women and women are to cover their hair or shave it off, never speak in Church because it's shameful, and to not braid their hair. Paul, in his ever so tolerant ways, disses marriage and women in general. The Bible also supports slavery and tells slaves to obey their masters. A woman is to marry her rapist, according to the Bible. Do I even need to get into what the Bible says you can and can not eat?

    Your "Word of God" says many things.


    If you want to practice your religion, that's fine and dandy. Don't force it on anyone else.
     
  7. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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  8. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    But you don't believe same sex couples should be treated as equal to heterosexual couples, do you?
     
  9. jamaesi

    jamaesi To Save A Lamb

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    If giving rights to homosexuals is illegal, then you must not support women or non-whites having rights. It's what the Bible says. : D
     
  10. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    I don't agree with the lifestyle, but no one should be discriminated against or denied their rights. Does that answer your question? :jiggy:
     
  11. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    So you support full legal marriage rights for same sex couples, correct?

    And it's not a lifestye, it's not a behavior, it's a sexuality (like heterosexuality) which one has as much control over as they do the color of their eyes.
     
  12. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    I think I answered your question the first time and in my opinion, it is a lifestyle choice and a behavior. If you are trying to justify it any other way, it's a stretch. :jiggy:
     
  13. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    I take offense at that statement and the ignorance that lies therein
     
  14. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Are you saying you know me better I than I know myself? I know I did not choose to be gay, I just am. Sexuality is not a lifestyle. My lifestyle little different from my siblings who are not gay. I have 2 kids, a car payment, rent, I'm going to college, I go to church (UU) and I eat three meals a day. That is my lifestye which has nothing to do with who I am attracted to. Do you define your lifestyle by whom you feel attracted to? Nope, didn't think so.

    Explain to me how it is a behavior, because that makes no sense. Even if homosexuality were a behavior, this would not make a difference; religion is a behavior and it is protected under civil rights law. Anyway, homosexuality is not based on any kind of behavior, rather it is a state of being...it is a characteristic which makes up part of the identity of the gay person. To call such an intrinsic trait a "behavior" dehumanizes and in effect says that gay people are not fully human.

    It seems that it is YOU sir who are the one stretching to justify your attitiude towards BGLT people.
     
  15. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason Doctor of Thinkology

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    You do realize that there are a lot of other people on this planet that would tell you that you have no idea what God intends? Wrap yourself in a self righteous view of God if you will, but please understand when the rest of us don't take you at your word.


    - and -
    Kinda missed the point of Jensa's reply there, didn't you.



    Intentional or not, that statement is a lie.



    I don't care if you are basing your opinion's on the writings of Thomas Aquinas, Machiavelli, Thoreau, or God himself - it is still discrimination. As for the fact that a majority of the people in our country agree with you does not make it right - it merely means that you do not have sole rights to religious intolerance and bigotry. Claiming that there are other bigots isn't much of a defense of your position.



    What a crock. In one post, you state that gay couples don't deserve the same rights as heterosexual couples, and in the next breath you are telling us how "no one should be discriminated against or denied their rights". Which is it?



    I think telling someone else what they think is a stretch. Then again, I don't suffer from the delusion that I am speaking for God.



    On a side note, is there some reason that compels you to put the smiley face at the end of every post? It's almost as if you feel that adding a smiley to a post that offends people somehow makes it more palatable. It doesn't.

    TVOR
     
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  16. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    That is your opinion and you havea right to it. I stand by what I said. :)
     
  17. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    Okay, so you don't agree with me, no problem. I don't have to speak for God. Pick up a Bible and He will speak to you Himself about the issue in question, without ambiguity. Please show me when I explicitly stated that gay partners do not deserve their rights? I never discriminate against any individual and extend love to all people. That does not mean that I am compelled to agree with that lifestyle. Why do you worry about the triviality of me leaving a smiley face icon. Lighten up. :jiggy:
     
  18. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    First of all, don't generalize the Bible, but be specific in regards to the passages of scripture, who was the writer speaking to, in what context and during what time. It was very customary for certain practices to exist during the period and be ingrained in that culture. Don't just take one scripture without making reference to it and some of the remaining verses in that passage to get a clearer perspective and discernment in what the writer/speaker meant.
     
  19. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason Doctor of Thinkology

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    Good.


    Since we all understand that your version of God is not universally accepted, your position is only valid when the group you are addressing share your views. Picking up a Bible has, unfortunately, not resulted in God speaking to me - about any issue. With no reply from God, ambiguity is a moot point.



    You have not EXPLICITY stated that gay partners do not deserve their rights. In posts #34 and #42 you implied very clearly what your position is. You can play semantics all you wish, but you were quite clear on where you stand.



    I'm not asking you to agree with that lifestyle. I am only asking you to extend the same rights to gays that the rest of us enjoy.


    As I said earlier, offensive statements are not softened by the addition of a smiley icon. I find it condescending to think that we cannot discern the difference.

    Thanks,
    TVOR
     
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  20. jamaesi

    jamaesi To Save A Lamb

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    Funny how everything else was just the culture back then, but it's still it's okay to call gays evil. I think the current culture is to be tolerant of everyone else even if you don't agree with them, but that's just me.

    :rolleyes:


    I'll put things into a little more context for you, though.

    The Bible says not to eat pigs. Christians don't rally for laws against the consumption of pigs. The Bible says slaves are okay, yet there are laws against it. The Bible says it's shameful for a woman to speak in Church- and God forbid she not have her hair covered!- and yet there are no Christians rallying for the complete silence of women in Churches.




    All arguments about homosexuality usually fall back onto a religion of some sort. Here in America, it is Christianity, seeing as it is largest religious group (for now at least). Religion and G-d have yet to be fully proved or disproved with no shadow of any doubt, it's a personal choice.

    If you don't use religion, which is a very bad thing to base an argument on to begin with, seeing as not everyone is of the same one religious group and even those in a group disagree on certain topics, what have you to say homosexuality is an unnatural and bad and evil thing on?

    Could say biology, seeing as males and females have different parts that clearly go together and it's unnatural for two males or two females to be together. But a counter for that is the theory that there might be a homosexuality gene, which is biological too and the fact there are many animals that display homosexual tendencies- monkeys, whales, giraffes, penguins, pigs- all different kinds of animals engage in homosexual sex. In the news recently there were stories about male penguins who would only take male mates. Many think that animals rely only on instinct, so those tendencies must be a natural thing.

    To go back to a religious standpoint, no one knows what G-d thinks. You can shove any Holy Book at me and say it's all in there, but did G-d come down and write them itself? No. Humans wrote them. Even if they were inspired by G-d and exactly what he said then, humans translated them and humans changed them, and humans make errors and mistakes. G-d hasn't ordered anyone to make HolyBook v2.0 with all the bugs and mistranslations worked out yet, either.



    http://www.truluck.com/html/six_bible_passages.html
    This is a very interesting read, also, though I am not sure of it's validity.
     
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