[Hindu Only] Simple argument against Advaita

[George-ananda]

According to Prakatarthakara, this cannot happen because the parts of Maya called avidya are infinite in number and so they can never be exhausted. So maya can never end, may be the sites which are mentioning this are mentioning about maya for the particular jiva which is his avidya samskaara which can be destroyed by study of vedanta. I wonder what Shankara said about the maya having an end.

Why do you keep referring to avidya parts like they are discreet parts and numerable? To me, avidya is like a fog of greater and finer density.

 

[kalyan]

Why do you keep referring to avidya parts like they are discreet parts and numerable? To me, avidya is like a fog of greater and finer density.

Isvara:

Reflected Consciousness +mAyA medium
Jiva:Reflected Consciousness + avidyA medium

 

[George-ananda]

Isvara:

Reflected Consciousness +mAyA medium
Jiva:Reflected Consciousness + avidyA medium

OK, but I am not sure how this answers my question.

 

[kalyan]

That is where the next line explains it.Because the tathatha shakti (which is kaarana of atma) itself is anaadi and nitya . The tathastha shaktii is situated between the material and spiritual world (viraja). From there it makes a choice (before manifestation of kala- time).

"krsna bhuli sei jiva anandi bahir mukha,
ataeva maya diye tare samsara dukha"

"Forgetting Krsna, the Jiva as always been averse from Him. Therefore maya gives her, the miseries of samsara"

I am giving a little passage from Sri Jaiva Dharma to clarifiy this point (because I found it quite confusing initially):

'"Vrajanatha: You said earlier that the cit world is eternal, and so are the jivas. If this is true, how can an eternal entity possibly be created, manifested or produced? If it is created at some point of time, it must have been non-existent before that, so how can we accept that it is eternal?

Babaji: The time and space that you experience in this material world are completely different from time and space in the spiritual world. Material time is divided into three aspects: past, present and future. However, in the spiritual world there is only one undivided, eternally present time. Every event of the spiritual world is eternally present.

Whatever we say or describe in the material world is under the jurisdiction of material time and space, so when we say "The jivas were created", "The spiritual world was manifested", or "There is no influence of maya in creating the form of the jivas", material time is bound to influence our language and our statements. This is inevitable in our conditioned state, so we cannot remove the influence of material time from our descriptions of the atomic jiva and spiritual objects. The conception of past, present and future always enters them in some way or another. Still, those who can discriminate properly can understand the application of the eternal present when they comprehend the purport of the descriptions of the spiritual world. Baba, be very careful in this matter. Give up the inevitable baseness, or the aspect of the description that is fit to be rejected, and have spiritual realization."


tasya va etasya purusasya dve eva sthane bhavata
idam ca paraloka-sthanam ca sandhyam trtiyam
svapna-sthanam tasmin sandhye sthane tisthan ete
ubhe sthane pasyati idam ca paraloka-sthanam ca


The purusa or jiva has two locations, the material world and the spiritual world. The jiva is situated at a third position, called svapna sthana, on the border between these two places. Situated in this marginal place, he can see both the material and spiritual worlds.
Brhadaranyaka Upanisad 4.4.3.18


I have not read this before, but nitai this is absolute rubbish.......I will tell you later why.....your this post actually goes against bhahgavans teachings in every sentence. jivas are NEVER created..

 

[kalyan]

OK, but I am not sure how this answers my question.

which is ? yyou said maya has end which should mean all jivas getting liberated which is an impossibility...we are in this world from the starting of sristi (tthat is like an infinite time ) and still we are not liberated .......(this janma due to Krushna grace should be )

 

[kalyan]

maya is arose in brahman resulting in brahman itself being split and appearing as multiple jIva, so whhen you said, the karmas are stored in the normal annihilation points to the eternalness of jIvas which then collapses advaita to duality.

Lets say at beginning, brahman due to maya with no jivas split
then the same scenario can happen again as there are no jivas to begin with, so maya cannot have end.

I now am leaning towards idea that in advaita there is no liberation, you just become that..makes sense ?

 

[George-ananda]

which is ?

The question was: Why do you keep referring to avidya parts like they are discreet parts and numerable? To me, avidya is like a fog of greater and finer density

yyou said maya has end which should mean all jivas getting liberated which is an impossibility..

I have since corrected my view to say this universe has an end but yes, Maya, is endless.

.we are in this world from the starting of sristi (tthat is like an infinite time ) and still we are not liberated .......(this janma due to Krushna grace should be )

I thought Brahman is infinite but a Jiva is like a spark from Brahman and has a beginning and end (the beginning and end are both in Brahman). A liberated Jiva is Brahman.

 

[George-ananda]

Jivas don't form. The atma was never created, nor will it be destroyed.

I agree the atma was never created but to me a jiva occurs when a spark of atma associates with matter and gets confused in the fog of maya. After this jiva liberates it then becomes atma/Brahman again.

 

[kalyan]

Question addresses in the OP is still not addressed!

 

[Leona Sorros]

Methods of Bhakti and Jnana cannot be differentiated, the main aim is to get absorbed. This absorption was achieved by Meera and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, they were united with Krishna through Bhakti. Adi Sankaracharya was absorbed in the Jnana. Bhakti Yogis or Jnana Yogis shouldn't ridicule each other.