hey, atheist, what if?????

[caminante]

ok, so i just got this "strange" question in my mind while reading another post:

atheist,what if, for some reason some one is going to show you that in fact, there is, or there isn't a god(lets say, an alien, or some mathematical process or for some crazy reason)...would you prefer to know that there is actually a God, or would you like that you would be proven that there is not God at all?:areyoucra

peace
paz)(

 

[sparc872]

Define God. I wouldn't mind if God was just some being that started this all rolling. But if God is a being that gives us 'free will' to choose between eternal ignorance and bliss or eternal burning and then fails to provide adequate reasons beyond the threat of burning alive forever to believe in him, then I would say I'd rather there be no God at all. I do like the idea of some grand unifying being, but the God as portrayed in the Bible seems far from that.

 

[Kungfuzed]

One of the main contributing factors that made me begin to question God's existence is that I had no direct means of communicating with Him. Prayer might calm the mind in a similar way to meditation but never gave me any straight answers to my questions. Prayer is like mailing a letter to a black hole.

If in proving God's existence it also provided a way to directly communicate with Him then I'd be very interested. Otherwise His existence is irrelavent.

 

[Smoke]

would you prefer to know that there is actually a God, or would you like that you would be proven that there is not God at all?

That's depends on what God would be like. If he's a jerk like Pat Robertson's God, I'd rather he didn't exist. If he's more like Rumi's God, or Julian of Norwich's, I'd rather he did.

 

[caminante]

A God like an almighty unifying force, that it will not be "introduce to you" but it will be proven his existence...
or, in other words...would you like the idea that it could be a being greater than humans who is the creator? or would you preffer that someone will tell you: nope, it just happened by chance

 

[caminante]

If in proving God's existence it also provided a way to directly communicate with Him then I'd be very interested. Otherwise His existence is irrelavent.

how could it be irrelevant? what if some "God" is watching you, and knowing that all you do has a "plan (i don't want to sound like a particular religion), but like, lets say you cannot communicate with him like in "words" or prayer, or thoughts, but that through life you will communicate with him.....


sometimes i realize that, if not God, something, life perhaps, tries to tell me something...

 

[Kungfuzed]

how could it be irrelevant? what if some "God" is watching you, and knowing that all you do has a "plan (i don't want to sound like a particular religion), but like, lets say you cannot communicate with him like in "words" or prayer, or thoughts, but that through life you will communicate with him.....


sometimes i realize that, if not God, something, life perhaps, tries to tell me something...

Without a direct relationship with God I have no reason to believe in Him. He has no influence over me. He doesn't help or hinder. He just sits back and watches His plan unfold. He has knocked over the first domino and plays no part until the last one falls. As it was put so well in the movie Devil's Advocate, He is an "absentee landlord". Is there any point in us discovering that such a God exists? We're just as well off never knowing Him in this life. Unless He can communicate with me, to guide me personally, there is no point in knowing God.

What do you mean by "through life you will communicate with him" ?

 

[Kungfuzed]

Also, since there currently is no objective evidence for the existence of God, the only evidence I could hope for would be subjective. Something very personal. If there is a God who has a plan for me, He's welcome to speak up. But after years of praying and serving Him, I'm through with one way communication. The ball is in His court now.

 

[eudaimonia]

atheist,what if, for some reason some one is going to show you that in fact, there is, or there isn't a god(lets say, an alien, or some mathematical process or for some crazy reason)...would you prefer to know that there is actually a God, or would you like that you would be proven that there is not God at all?

The reason that I am a nontheist in the first place is that I'm honest with myself in my pursuit of understanding reality for what it is. If there is a God, I would want to know about that. If there isn't a God, I would want to know about that too.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Willamena]

Without a direct relationship with God I have no reason to believe in Him. He has no influence over me. He doesn't help or hinder. He just sits back and watches His plan unfold. He has knocked over the first domino and plays no part until the last one falls. As it was put so well in the movie Devil's Advocate, He is an "absentee landlord". Is there any point in us discovering that such a God exists? We're just as well off never knowing Him in this life. Unless He can communicate with me, to guide me personally, there is no point in knowing God.

I was with you until the last line.

Is there a point to your existing? That sounds a bit mean, but it's a straightforward, simple question. You exist in relationship to the world around you. If you were to discover a god that exists, whatever its sort, it too would exist in relationship to you. Why is it necessary that you get something practical out of it?

 

[stemann]

atheist,what if, for some reason some one is going to show you that in fact, there is, or there isn't a god(lets say, an alien, or some mathematical process or for some crazy reason)...would you prefer to know that there is actually a God, or would you like that you would be proven that there is not God at all?

I would prefer there to not be a conscious or sentient God supreme above all, because that would make me myself feel rather futile and pointless. I mean, there's no point to life as it is, but at least without God I can enjoy it without 'obligation' to Creator Being.

Prayer is like mailing a letter to a black hole.

Not unlike the Royal Mail.

or would you preffer that someone will tell you: nope, it just happened by chance

I would prefer that people stop thinking that the atheist worldview is 'chance.'

Is there a point to your existing? That sounds a bit mean, but it's a straightforward, simple question. You exist in relationship to the world around you. If you were to discover a god that exists, whatever its sort, it too would exist in relationship to you. Why is it necessary that you get something practical out of it?

If you know that something exists, but the 'something' does not affect you in any way, then the only thing that will affect you is your own knowledge. If, like Kungfuzed, you do not let it affect you, then it will not make a difference either way.

In this reality, however, this would not work out, as it is impossible to 'know' ('observe') something without affecting it.

 

[retrorich]

ok, so i just got this "strange" question in my mind while reading another post:

atheist,what if, for some reason some one is going to show you that in fact, there is, or there isn't a god(lets say, an alien, or some mathematical process or for some crazy reason)...would you prefer to know that there is actually a God, or would you like that you would be proven that there is not God at all?:areyoucra

peace
paz)(

I would prefer that it be proven that there is NOT a god--because if there were a god, and it were an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent god, and the creator of the universe, I would blame it for all the evil and misery in the world.

 

[Smoke]

A God like an almighty unifying force, that it will not be "introduce to you" but it will be proven his existence...
or, in other words...would you like the idea that it could be a being greater than humans who is the creator? or would you preffer that someone will tell you: nope, it just happened by chance

That what happened by chance? I don't believe we came to be here by blind chance, by a roll of the dice, but by physical processes that work in ways we're still discovering. I don't know of any reason to introduce a deity into the investigation.

We're trying to discover the origins of organized complexity. If we explain that by assuming it's a miracle, the act of a deity, we haven't solved the problem, we've just moved it back a step: now it's the deity that requires explanation. Or, as Bertrand Russell says, "If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause. If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God."

 

[MysticSang'ha]

That what happened by chance? I don't believe we came to be here by blind chance, by a roll of the dice, but by physical processes that work in ways we're still discovering. I don't know of any reason to introduce a deity into the investigation.

We're trying to discover the origins of organized complexity. If we explain that by assuming it's a miracle, the act of a deity, we haven't solved the problem, we've just moved it back a step: now it's the deity that requires explanation. Or, as Bertrand Russell says, "If everything must have a cause, then God must have a cause. If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God."

:clap Well said.



Peace,
Mystic

 

[PureX]

We're trying to discover the origins of organized complexity.

I agree. But for a lot of theists, the term for this mysterious origin is "God". My point would be that the desagreement isn't so much about naming the mystery, it's about defining it.

 

[Kungfuzed]

I was with you until the last line.

Is there a point to your existing? That sounds a bit mean, but it's a straightforward, simple question. You exist in relationship to the world around you. If you were to discover a god that exists, whatever its sort, it too would exist in relationship to you. Why is it necessary that you get something practical out of it?

As an atheist I define my own purpose for existing. If God exists but can't or won't communicate with us then what is the point for Him to exist?

 

[caminante]

hey hey GUUUYS...i'm not saying that i believe that everything happened by chance...i really don't know, and i strongly believe that everything has a reason.i just made the post, because i wanted to see how people thought it was just a question almost for fun, and i'm glad it created some discussion..it is just a question, so what would you preffer?

 

[Smoke]

it is just a question, so what would you preffer?

The constraints on the question make it impossible to answer. It's like asking, How would you feel if there were an animal in your yard? You're not allowed to see the animal, have any direct experience of it, or know any of its attributes, but I want to know how you'd feel about it. It depends entirely on what kind of animal it is, and what kind of knowledge or experience can be expected to proceed from the fact of its presence.

 

[JerryL]

atheist,what if, for some reason some one is going to show you that in fact, there is, or there isn't a god(lets say, an alien, or some mathematical process or for some crazy reason)...would you prefer to know that there is actually a God, or would you like that you would be proven that there is not God at all?

I would prefer to find out that my persona is immortal to finding out that death is the end of my existance.

As to whether I'd like there to be a God: that would depend on what God was like.

 

[bigvindaloo]

ok, so i just got this "strange" question in my mind while reading another post:

atheist,what if, for some reason some one is going to show you that in fact, there is, or there isn't a god(lets say, an alien, or some mathematical process or for some crazy reason)...would you prefer to know that there is actually a God, or would you like that you would be proven that there is not God at all?:areyoucra

peace
paz)(

Your question addresses faith versus proof. If I have faith, of course I would prefer to have proof in order to justify my faith, otherwise I can resort to belief alone. If I require proof, and there is none (none is possible) I am consequently atheist. Atheism is a null hypothesis in the absence of further proof. If I am convinced my current position of atheism is a final one, I am a fool. Just as any scientist predicting lack of proof against their theory equals truth is a fool.