• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Heaven

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
But why do you think that some Christians understand what the Book of Revelation means whereas other Christians don't understand what it means?
Oops, I said goodnight, but then I saw this.

Good question!

Here’s an answer, which I posted to you above….

How important, do you think, are Jesus’ words at Luke 10:21? If God can either ‘hide’ its meaning or ‘reveal’ its meaning, wouldn’t it be important to try and please Him, measure up to His requirements, to receive His blessing?

I guess the question is…what are God’s requirements? How does God want people to live?

I think those practicing sexual immorality, and those hating others, performing these actions condemned in God’s Word, are obviously disqualified from receiving “revealed” information from God.

Agree?

Also, Jesus said that he himself would deny “many” claiming to follow him.
— Matthew 7:21-23

I guess many aren’t truly living by the requirements set forth. Jesus & his Father, Jehovah God, know.

Hope this was helpful
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Yes that’s true; but is this *immediately* after death? Or could this be at the future resurrection? Notice the Apostle Paul’s words at Acts 24:15, that “there is going to be a Resurrection…”
But quite a few times, in 1 Corinthians 15 (vss.6,18,&20), 1 Thessalonians 4 (vss.14&15) Paul said many Christians who had died had “fallen asleep”; & in Acts 13:36, he said David “fell asleep” when he died. Acts 7:60 reports that after being stoned, Stephen “fell asleep.” So these Christians who died, were not in those “many mansions,” at that time. Only when the *future* resurrection came, at their ‘standing back to life,’ would they receive their reward.
I explained what I believe about the Resurrection on post #124 and post #155. Below is an excerpt from post #155.

The Day of Resurrection is when Christ returns and believers are spiritually resurrected. Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life. The raising of the dead means the spiritual awakening of those who are asleep in the graves of ignorance, heedlessness and lust. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God.

The Day of Judgment comes after Christ returns. It is called the Day of Judgment because by acceptance or rejection of Christ believers are judged. When Christ returns the sheep are separated from the goats, for the sheep know the voice of the Good Shepherd and follow Him and gain Eternal Life. The goats reject Christ when He returns and thus consign themselves to deprivation and loss of the Eternal Life.
The Bible is consistent on the condition of the dead. This concept of ‘souls existing after death’, is not found in the Bible. Just the opposite: nephesh - “soul” in Hebrew - dies. Ezekiel 18:4; Ezekiel 18:20.

Where the Bible mentions “dead people”, like at
Leviticus 19:28,
Leviticus 21:1,
Leviticus 21:11,
Numbers 6:11
& other verses, the phrase in Hebrew is “dead souls”.
I believe that the Bible has been misinterpreted by many Christians. For one thing, in the context of what happens after physical death, the word spirit means the same thing as the word soul, so when we die, the physical body returns to the earth and the spirit returns to God who is in heaven.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.​

Also, whenever the Bible says that the soul that sins shall die, that means that soul will not attain to eternal life, and eternal life means nearness to God, which means closeness to God in mind and heart that comes with knowing and following Jesus. The souls that are far from God will still continue to exist after the body dies since the soul is immortal, but that soul will not have eternal life.
I guess the question is…what are God’s requirements? How does God want people to live?

I think those practicing sexual immorality, and those hating others, performing these actions condemned in God’s Word, are obviously disqualified from receiving “revealed” information from God.

Agree?
I do not think those actions disqualify them from receiving “revealed” information from God but they do disqualify them from attainining eternal life, as described above, since these people are far from God in mind and heart, and their behavior reflects that.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
I explained what I believe about the Resurrection on post #124 and post #155. Below is an excerpt from post #155.

The Day of Resurrection is when Christ returns and believers are spiritually resurrected. Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life. The raising of the dead means the spiritual awakening of those who are asleep in the graves of ignorance, heedlessness and lust. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God.

The Day of Judgment comes after Christ returns. It is called the Day of Judgment because by acceptance or rejection of Christ believers are judged. When Christ returns the sheep are separated from the goats, for the sheep know the voice of the Good Shepherd and follow Him and gain Eternal Life. The goats reject Christ when He returns and thus consign themselves to deprivation and loss of the Eternal Life.

I believe that the Bible has been misinterpreted by many Christians. For one thing, in the context of what happens after physical death, the word spirit means the same thing as the word soul, so when we die, the physical body returns to the earth and the spirit returns to God who is in heaven.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.​

Also, whenever the Bible says that the soul that sins shall die, that means that soul will not attain to eternal life, and eternal life means nearness to God, which means closeness to God in mind and heart that comes with knowing and following Jesus. The souls that are far from God will still continue to exist after the body dies since the soul is immortal, but that soul will not have eternal life.

I do not think those actions disqualify them from receiving “revealed” information from God but they do disqualify them from attainining eternal life, as described above, since these people are far from God in mind and heart, and their behavior reflects that.
you use the words spiritually resurrected ,do you have a scripture that says spiritually resurrected?
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
No, do you have a scripture that says physically resurrected?

On the other hand, maybe I spoke too soon.

i have a few​

John 5:29

and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

Hebrews 11:35

Women received their dead by resurrection, but other men were tortured because they would not accept release by some ransom, in order that they might attain a better resurrection.

Acts 2:32

God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.

Mark 12:23

In the resurrection, whose wife will she be? For the seven had her as a wife.”

1 Corinthians 15:13

If, indeed, there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised up.

1 Corinthians 15:42

So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption.

Hebrews 6:2

the teaching on baptisms and the laying on of the hands, the resurrection of the dead and everlasting judgment.

Matthew 22:28

So in the resurrection, of the seven, whose wife will she be? For they all had her as a wife.”

Luke 20:27

However, some of the Sadducees, those who say there is no resurrection, came and asked him:

Luke 20:33

Consequently, in the resurrection, whose wife will she become? For the seven had her as a wife.”

John 11:24

Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”

Philippians 3:11

to see if at all possible I may attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:21

For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.

Matthew 22:31

Regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, who said:

Acts 23:8

For the Sadducees say that there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees accept them all.

Revelation 20:5

(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

Luke 14:14

and you will be happy, because they have nothing with which to repay you. For you will be repaid in the resurrection of the righteous ones.”

Acts 2:24

But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it.

Acts 26:23

that the Christ was to suffer and that as the first to be resurrected from the dead, he was going to proclaim light both to this people and to the nations.”

2 Timothy 2:18

These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some.

Acts 4:2

These were annoyed because the apostles were teaching the people and were openly declaring the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.

John 6:54

Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day;

Philippians 3:10

My aim is to know him and the power of his resurrection and to share in his sufferings, submitting myself to a death like his,

John 6:44

No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day.

Acts 2:31

he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave nor did his flesh see corruption.

Acts 17:32

Now when they heard of a resurrection of the dead, some began to scoff, while others said: “We will hear you again about this.”

Acts 24:15

And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

Romans 6:5

If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:12

Now if it is being preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how is it that some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead?

Luke 20:35

but those who have been counted worthy of gaining that system of things and the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage.

Acts 4:33

And with great power the apostles continued giving the witness about the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and undeserved kindness was upon them all in large measure.

Romans 1:4

but who with power was declared God’s Son according to the spirit of holiness by means of resurrection from the dead—yes, Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 6:40

For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

John 11:25

Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;

1 Peter 3:21

Baptism, which corresponds to this, is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Acts 1:22

starting with his baptism by John until the day he was taken up from us, one of these men should become a witness with us of his resurrection.”

Acts 24:21

except for this one thing that I cried out while standing among them: ‘Over the resurrection of the dead I am today being judged before you!’”

Revelation 20:6

Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.

Acts 13:33

God has completely fulfilled it to us, their children, by resurrecting Jesus; just as it is written in the second psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’

John 6:39

This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose none out of all those whom he has given me, but that I should resurrect them on the last day.

Acts 13:34

And the fact that He resurrected him from the dead never again to return to corruption, He has stated in this way: ‘I will give you the expressions of loyal love promised to David, which are faithful.’

1 Peter 1:3

Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Acts 17:31

Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.”

Acts 23:6

Now Paul, knowing that the one part was made up of Sadducees but the other of Pharisees, cried out in the Sanʹhe·drin: “Men, brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. Over the hope of the resurrection of the dead I am being judged.”

 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member

i have a few​

John 5:29

and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

Hebrews 11:35

Women received their dead by resurrection, but other men were tortured because they would not accept release by some ransom, in order that they might attain a better resurrection.

Acts 2:32

God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.

Mark 12:23

In the resurrection, whose wife will she be? For the seven had her as a wife.”

1 Corinthians 15:13

If, indeed, there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised up.

1 Corinthians 15:42

So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption.

Hebrews 6:2

the teaching on baptisms and the laying on of the hands, the resurrection of the dead and everlasting judgment.

Matthew 22:28

So in the resurrection, of the seven, whose wife will she be? For they all had her as a wife.”

Luke 20:27

However, some of the Sadducees, those who say there is no resurrection, came and asked him:

Luke 20:33

Consequently, in the resurrection, whose wife will she become? For the seven had her as a wife.”

John 11:24

Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”

Philippians 3:11

to see if at all possible I may attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:21

For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man.

Matthew 22:31

Regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, who said:

Acts 23:8

For the Sadducees say that there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees accept them all.

Revelation 20:5

(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

Luke 14:14

and you will be happy, because they have nothing with which to repay you. For you will be repaid in the resurrection of the righteous ones.”

Acts 2:24

But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it.

Acts 26:23

that the Christ was to suffer and that as the first to be resurrected from the dead, he was going to proclaim light both to this people and to the nations.”

2 Timothy 2:18

These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some.

Acts 4:2

These were annoyed because the apostles were teaching the people and were openly declaring the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.

John 6:54

Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day;

Philippians 3:10

My aim is to know him and the power of his resurrection and to share in his sufferings, submitting myself to a death like his,

John 6:44

No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day.

Acts 2:31

he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave nor did his flesh see corruption.

Acts 17:32

Now when they heard of a resurrection of the dead, some began to scoff, while others said: “We will hear you again about this.”

Acts 24:15

And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

Romans 6:5

If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:12

Now if it is being preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how is it that some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead?

Luke 20:35

but those who have been counted worthy of gaining that system of things and the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage.

Acts 4:33

And with great power the apostles continued giving the witness about the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and undeserved kindness was upon them all in large measure.

Romans 1:4

but who with power was declared God’s Son according to the spirit of holiness by means of resurrection from the dead—yes, Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 6:40

For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

John 11:25

Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;

1 Peter 3:21

Baptism, which corresponds to this, is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Acts 1:22

starting with his baptism by John until the day he was taken up from us, one of these men should become a witness with us of his resurrection.”

Acts 24:21

except for this one thing that I cried out while standing among them: ‘Over the resurrection of the dead I am today being judged before you!’”

Revelation 20:6

Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.

Acts 13:33

God has completely fulfilled it to us, their children, by resurrecting Jesus; just as it is written in the second psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’

John 6:39

This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose none out of all those whom he has given me, but that I should resurrect them on the last day.

Acts 13:34

And the fact that He resurrected him from the dead never again to return to corruption, He has stated in this way: ‘I will give you the expressions of loyal love promised to David, which are faithful.’

1 Peter 1:3

Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Acts 17:31

Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.”

Acts 23:6

Now Paul, knowing that the one part was made up of Sadducees but the other of Pharisees, cried out in the Sanʹhe·drin: “Men, brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. Over the hope of the resurrection of the dead I am being judged.”

Sure, but none of those say physical resurrection and none of them say physically dead.
 

MJ Bailey

Member
The human id IMO is something in which can be controlled but unfortunately most people choose not to and try to use it to justify their actions in which may be in appropriate. However what you referred to such as indulging in an alcoholic beverage once in awhile and being involved in certain sex practices, I do not see how this would be a problem unless your actions are harming another individual or you are making another individual act without clear consent (such as being inebriated; drugged without consent for example) I do not see why Heaven would completely disregard these things. One thing I would possibly ponder on is this; who is to say those urges or wants will still exist? The Immense Love and Joy would more than likely allow you to forget these things. I have read a very interesting text called The Lost Books of the Bible which includes the lost books of Eden and the book of Enoch amongst other interesting stories in which may give you a more solidified approach to your concerns.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
Sure, but none of those say physical resurrection and none of them say physically dead.
wow, which one does not ?

Resurrection

The Greek word a·naʹsta·sis literally means “raising up; standing up.” It is used frequently in the Christian Greek Scriptures with reference to the resurrection of the dead. The Hebrew Scriptures at Hosea 13:14, quoted by the apostle Paul (1Co 15:54, 55), speak of the abolition of death and the rendering powerless of Sheol (Heb., sheʼohlʹ; Gr., haiʹdes). Sheʼohlʹ is rendered in various versions as “grave” and “pit.” .....
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
wow, which one does not ?

Resurrection

The Greek word a·naʹsta·sis literally means “raising up; standing up.” It is used frequently in the Christian Greek Scriptures with reference to the resurrection of the dead. The Hebrew Scriptures at Hosea 13:14, quoted by the apostle Paul (1Co 15:54, 55), speak of the abolition of death and the rendering powerless of Sheol (Heb., sheʼohlʹ; Gr., haiʹdes). Sheʼohlʹ is rendered in various versions as “grave” and “pit.” .....
Dead bodies don't rise from their graves, come back to life and 'live again' That is perhaps the biggest lie that Christianity teaches.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
Dead bodies don't rise from their graves, come back to life and 'live again' That is perhaps the biggest lie that Christianity teaches.
if you have read the bible you should know Jesus resurrected many
res·ur·rect

VERB
resurrected (past tense) · resurrected (past participle)
  1. restore (a dead person) to life:
    "he was dead, but he was resurrected"
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
if you have read the bible you should know Jesus resurrected many
res·ur·rect

VERB
resurrected (past tense) · resurrected (past participle)
  1. restore (a dead person) to life:
    "he was dead, but he was resurrected"

resurrect​

  1. resurrect something to bring back into use something such as a belief, a practice, etc. that had disappeared or been forgotten.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member

resurrect​

  1. resurrect something to bring back into use something such as a belief, a practice, etc. that had disappeared or been forgotten.
perhaps you should try

Resurrection​

 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
No, do you have a scripture that says physically resurrected?
Yes. @cataway mentioned John 5:29, but the previous verse, John 5:28, is specific about it. Jesus said, “The hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice (29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.”)

Wasn’t the resurrection of Lazarus, of the widow of Nain’s son, of Jaírus’ daughter, of Eutychus… weren’t they all physical resurrections? Yes they were.


Good night.
 
Last edited:

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
only according to stories in a book, but there is no reason to believe the stories are true.
Couldn’t the same be said about “the stories of Bahāʾullāh”?

What makes you believe one man over 66 men who worshipped Jehovah & wrote the Bible?

Now, good night. Lol
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Couldn’t the same be said about “the stories of Bahāʾullāh”?
No, because those stories took place in modern history and there were people who knew Baha'u'llah who actually wrote the stories.
What makes you believe one man over 66 men who worshipped Jehovah & wrote the Bible?
I believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God just as I believe Jesus was a Manifestation of God, but Jesus did not write the Bible.
I have no reason to believe what those 66 men wrote since I don't even know who they are and they did not even know Jesus personally.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Yes. @cataway mentioned John 5:29, but the previous verse, John 5:28, is specific about it. Jesus said, “The hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice (29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.”)
John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


I believe these verses are referring to people who were buried in graves of spiritual ignorance coming forth and being resurrected to spiritual life.
They are not referring to physical bodies being resurrected from physical graves in the ground.
Wasn’t the resurrection of Lazarus, of the widow of Nain’s son, of Jaírus’ daughter, of Eutychus… weren’t they all physical resurrections? Yes they were.
Maybe they were in the stories, but those were just stories. I don't know about the others but the story of Lazarus has a spiritual interpretation.
 
Top