Heaven And Hell - Where Are They?

[Booko]

Are you replying to me? Your post is attached to my OP, but there is no "Thus" statement there. Perhaps you could explain who you are addressing, and what exactly you mean by your statement.

You might want to read what you actually post then, as opposed to just do a cut&paste from that book you're hawking and then forgetting what you just did:

Thus, Jesus, and all genuine Gnostics/Mystics, can be in Heaven on Earth. Everyone else necessarily experiences Hell on Earth. Hell can seem enjoyable and/or entertaining at times, but such experiences are very limited and short lived.

Oh well, no one said that having a lock on Spiritual Truth guarantees a long attention span.

 

[Booko]

72 virgins in a place where you have no body? Now THAT sounds like hell.

I'm wondering what the wimmen get, but then I asked that in a serious thread summia just started, and I'll be interested to read the answers.

I think if we understood what heaven consisted of we'd commit suicide to get there.

Yeah, I'd think so as well.

As for hell, I beleive for the most part, it's just like this place (i'm serious, not being cynical or anything). I think for a select few baddies, hell will be a place where you'll be so far removed from the spirit of God that you'd wish you never existed.

Do you believe it's an eternal condition, or do is there some possibility of progress of some sort?

As for the location, Hell is Michigan, who knows where heaven is?

Did you mean that Michigan is Hell or Hell is in Michigan?

As for Heaven...like I said, I've only been to Paradise.

 

[Super Universe]

I think you've been punked.

But then who are you?

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

You might want to read what you actually post then, as opposed to just do a cut&paste from that book you're hawking and then forgetting what you just did:

Perhaps you should be the one to read and understand what I am saying! NOTE: THE POST I WAS REPLYING TO WAS ATTACHED TO MY O.P. - MY OPPENING POST (THREAD STARTER), NOT TO MY POST #16 - THERE IS NO "THUS" STATEMENT IN MY O.P. !

You see, I use THREADED mode to view the forum, so as to clearly see who is actually replying to who. But, I guess, few people use this mode, and many replies are not attached to the appropriate post. Can you possibly understand this?

Originally Posted by A. Ben-Shema
Are you replying to me? Your post is attached to my OP, but there is no "Thus" statement there. Perhaps you could explain who you are addressing, and what exactly you mean by your statement.

Oh well, no one said that having a lock on Spiritual Truth guarantees a long attention span.

Or, it seems in your case, any concept at all of understanding simple English! :sleep:

 

[Popeyesays]

No amount of money in the world can buy the Truth.

But if you want to know about Heaven and Hell, it is really very simple. Heaven is within. Not literally a physical place, but the actual EXPERIENCE of the Spirit of God within. It is the experience of Divine LIGHT, the Mystic SOUND or Voice of God, the Holy NAME / WORD / LOGOS, and the Spiritual sustenance MANNA / AMBROSIA.

Hell is the experience of this world, without Knowing and Experiencing the true inner Mystic Experience of Heaven.

Thus, Jesus, and all genuine Gnostics/Mystics, can be in Heaven on Earth. Everyone else necessarily experiences Hell on Earth. Hell can seem enjoyable and/or entertaining at times, but such experiences are very limited and short lived.

Peace & Love

There is your statement with the THUS, underlined, bolded, italicized and colored red for emphasis.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Booko]

Or, it seems in your case, any concept at all of understanding simple English! :sleep:

Hey, bubba, you wanted to know what the "thus" referred to and I quoted it for you.

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

There is your statement with the THUS, underlined, bolded, italicized and colored red for emphasis.

Regards,
Scott

Yes, I can see now! But why was the original post, concerning this question, not attached to this post of mine, so that I could know who, what, and which post was being referred to in the first place?

Very confusing. Try switching to 'THREADED' view mode, and you will see what I mean!

 

[Booko]

Yes, I can see now! But why was the original post, concerning this question, not attached to this post of mine, so that I could know who, what, and which post was being referred to in the first place?

Very confusing. Try switching to 'THREADED' view mode, and you will see what I mean!

You seem to be the only user here experiencing this difficulty.

If you go over to Site Feedback and ask, perhaps someone can help you out.

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

Quote: A.B-S.
Thus, Jesus, and all genuine Gnostics/Mystics, can be in Heaven on Earth. Everyone else necessarily experiences Hell on Earth. Hell can seem enjoyable and/or entertaining at times, but such experiences are very limited and short lived.

It's your "Thus" statement that turns the whole argument to manure.

I really don't know what you mean by 'turning the whole argument to manure'. Let me explain what I said more fully.

ALL those who possess the Divine Gnosis can Experience the very Kingdom of Heaven right here and now on Earth all the while they attune and devote themselves to the experience.

Without Divine Knowledge (the KEY) no one (as far as I am aware - perhaps God gives glimpses to various people) can actually have the 'Beatific Vision' ('Vision of the Shekhinah') - the same vision as Moses had on the mountain (the eternally 'burning bush'), and the same vision that is described throughout the OT and so many other scriptures throughout the world.

Now, in my opinion, there are no two ways about it, it is very black or white, very hot or cold, we are either in Heaven or we are in Hell, right here on Earth. There is no in between, no lukewarm, no grey area in Truth. It is all or nothing. It requires complete commitment and sacrifice.

Peace & Love

 

[Popeyesays]

I really don't know what you mean by 'turning the whole argument to manure'. Let me explain what I said more fully.

ALL those who possess the Divine Gnosis can Experience the very Kingdom of Heaven right here and now on Earth all the while they attune and devote themselves to the experience.

Without Divine Knowledge (the KEY) no one (as far as I am aware - perhaps God gives glimpses to various people) can actually have the 'Beatific Vision' ('Vision of the Shekhinah') - the same vision as Moses had on the mountain (the eternally 'burning bush'), and the same vision that is described throughout the OT and so many other scriptures throughout the world.

Now, in my opinion, there are no two ways about it, it is very black or white, very hot or cold, we are either in Heaven or we are in Hell, right here on Earth. There is no in between, no lukewarm, no grey area in Truth. It is all or nothing. It requires complete commitment and sacrifice.

Peace & Love

I agree about the concept of heaven and hell being states of existence that are in this life as well as the next.

In prayer and meditation or service to others there is a true experience of heaven. Giving into one's idle fancies and vain imaginations (satan) is also a true experience of hell.

The black and the white are the Ego and the Divine. One can only be filled by one of those at a time.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Prometheus]

I think there will be 72 virgins, but they will be men.

 

[VanCrackin]

Ah.
Well, if Hell exists, in my mind...
I don't see why Satan would cooperate with God and torment souls, considering that he wants to win people over to his side. Eternal damnation and all that really doesn't sound all that appealing. You know? So, who knows? Hell might be a nice place. Why would Satan punish those like him? Although he might not necessarily reward them either.

Personally, if there is a place a soul goes to be punished, I think the pain will be more of an emotional pain. Either that or a place where it's hard to feel anything at all besides dead inside.
But if there is a God, I can't see him sending his beloved children to Hell for an eternity. I think its more of a "go sit in the corner for a couple thousand years and think about what you've done" kinda thing.

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

You seem to be the only user here experiencing this difficulty.

If you go over to Site Feedback and ask, perhaps someone can help you out.

I have actually seen other users here asking to whom a particular post is addressed! So I am not the only one.

 

[witness]

Hey Ben, I"m kinda new here but I'll tell you what I believe. Heaven and Hell are not places we go after we die but states of being we create for ourselves while living. By state of being I do not mean our physical surroundings, but rather how we feel about them. Imagine having $20 to your name. Now imagine giving your last $20 to the blind homeless man on the corner. Though you are now at least $20 poorer then the blind homeless man, you feel in perfect harmony with the world.
Now imagine you are a multi-millionare. You have counted every penny you have earned. You have cared only about what's in it for you. You have abused the generosity of others. You have taken advantage of peoples trust. You are alone with your wealth deeply frightened someone will take it away from you. And the fear that it is still not enough grows.
Heaven and hell are here on earth. God gave us free will to choose which path we take, not after death, but in life.

 

[Booko]

I think there will be 72 virgins, but they will be men.

72 men to train? Prometheus my friend, that would be my idea of hell.

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

Hey Ben, I"m kinda new here but I'll tell you what I believe. Heaven and Hell are not places we go after we die but states of being we create for ourselves while living. By state of being I do not mean our physical surroundings, but rather how we feel about them. Imagine having $20 to your name. Now imagine giving your last $20 to the blind homeless man on the corner. Though you are now at least $20 poorer then the blind homeless man, you feel in perfect harmony with the world.
Now imagine you are a multi-millionare. You have counted every penny you have earned. You have cared only about what's in it for you. You have abused the generosity of others. You have taken advantage of peoples trust. You are alone with your wealth deeply frightened someone will take it away from you. And the fear that it is still not enough grows.
Heaven and hell are here on earth. God gave us free will to choose which path we take, not after death, but in life.

I agree, to some extent, with what you say, i.e. that Heaven is a state of being (experience) during our life on Earth. However, I would conclude that the example you have used is merely an emotional / psychological state of feeling good - a 'mental' feeling of wellbeing (heaven), which satisfies the ego.

Spiritual Heaven (imo) is the 'first-hand' Mystical Experience of God, and does not depend on any physical / material / psychological / emotional experiences.

Peace & Love

 

[witness]

You are right Ben, my example is a bit narrow and simplistic, but I am happy to see you understand what I'm getting at and appreciate your response. I agree, the Mystical experience of God is not dependant upon the physical...,ect experiences however, I do not believe it to be entirely exclusive of them either. Once in a blue moon, and for very short periods of time I have had a few of these mystical experiences. For me it has been the transcendence of human experience that has led to my very brief mystical experiences.
What I'm saying is that to experience the mystical, one must accept the human experience with all its pains and pleasures and be willing to see beyond them.
What do you think Ben?

 

[gnostic]

I have heard that heaven and hell are only the "state of mind"....whatever that means....

 

[logician]

Heaven and hell are not even well supported biblically, both are inventions of man, to use the carrot and stick method to gain followers.

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

You are right Ben, my example is a bit narrow and simplistic, but I am happy to see you understand what I'm getting at and appreciate your response. I agree, the Mystical experience of God is not dependant upon the physical...,ect experiences however, I do not believe it to be entirely exclusive of them either. Once in a blue moon, and for very short periods of time I have had a few of these mystical experiences. For me it has been the transcendence of human experience that has led to my very brief mystical experiences.
What I'm saying is that to experience the mystical, one must accept the human experience with all its pains and pleasures and be willing to see beyond them.
What do you think Ben?

Yes, I agree that the human experience is crucial for the discovery of the Divine. It is only when we discover (and truly realize) that this physical/mental plane does not (and cannot) deliver the true and eternal peace and contentment that we seek, that we can progress to a higher realm.

As I have said before: A glass of water is only of value, and sought, for by the thirsty.

Love & Peace