Health is contageous and moves from a healthy body to an ill one

[spirit_of_dawn]

How should we judge a religious leader that on one hand states that if religion is not in conformance with science it is superstition:

"Religion must be in harmony with science and reason. If it does not conform to science and reconcile with reason, it is superstition."​

and on the other hand tells us that health is contagious and a healthy person can contagiously heal an ill person but it occurs at a slower pace than causing illness:

"... in reality both health and sickness are contagious. The contagiousness of disease is rapid and violent, whereas that of health is exceedingly slow and weak. If two bodies are brought into contact with each other, it is certain that microbial particles will be transmitted from one to the other. In the same way that disease is rapidly and violently transmitted from one body to another, the strong health of a healthy person may also alleviate a very slight condition in a sick person. Our meaning is that the contagiousness of disease is rapid and violent, while that of health is very slow and of limited effect, and it is only in minor ills that this modest effect can be felt. In such cases, the strength of the healthy body overcomes the slight weakness of the sick body and brings about its health. This is one kind of healing."
​

?

 

[Nakosis]

Waiiit! You mean all you sick folks out there are sucking the health out of me?

Stop it, stop it right now.

 

[sun rise]

I would judge such a person as not being 100% accurate about health and I would not listen to what such a person said.

 

[danieldemol]

How should we judge a religious leader that on one hand states that if religion is not in conformance with science it is superstition:

"Religion must be in harmony with science and reason. If it does not conform to science and reconcile with reason, it is superstition."​

and on the other hand tells us that health is contagious and a healthy person can contagiously heal an ill person but it occurs at a slower pace than causing illness:

"... in reality both health and sickness are contagious. The contagiousness of disease is rapid and violent, whereas that of health is exceedingly slow and weak. If two bodies are brought into contact with each other, it is certain that microbial particles will be transmitted from one to the other. In the same way that disease is rapidly and violently transmitted from one body to another, the strong health of a healthy person may also alleviate a very slight condition in a sick person. Our meaning is that the contagiousness of disease is rapid and violent, while that of health is very slow and of limited effect, and it is only in minor ills that this modest effect can be felt. In such cases, the strength of the healthy body overcomes the slight weakness of the sick body and brings about its health. This is one kind of healing."
​

?

The problem I have with your post, is that you leave it unclear as to whether you agree with the true part and disagree with the false part, or whether you disagree with all of it.

So do you agree that it is good to use science to shave the superstition off religion or not?

 

[Vinayaka]

Maybe this explains professional sports. Being around, or in the vicinity, of all those healthy athletes will surely have some of it rubbing off on you. Little wonder such events attract thousands.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

The problem I have with your post, is that you leave it unclear as to whether you agree with the true part and disagree with the false part, or whether you disagree with all of it.

So do you agree that it is good to use science to shave the superstition off religion or not?

I'm not the one being discussed here. And I don't make claims of having "superhuman knowledge and perfection" while uttering unscientific facts.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Maybe this explains professional sports. Being around, or in the vicinity, of all those healthy athletes will surely have some of it rubbing off on you. Little wonder such events attract thousands.

So if I hang around with a group of athletes long enough without even trying to become one, after a while their athletism will seep into me and make me like them? Or maybe if we leave a cancer patient long enough among a crowd of healthy people, that person will eventually be cured due to their health slowly seeping into him.

 

[danieldemol]

I'm not the one being discussed here. And I don't make claims of having "superhuman knowledge and perfection" while uttering unscientific facts.

That’s the advantage of liberalism, you can take what is true from people and toss out what is false, unlike your hypocritical it’s 100% true or 100%false attitude, which is not even true that it’s the 100%truth in the case of fundamentalist Shia doctrine anyway.

 

[Axe Elf]

Kinda like renaming light bulbs as "dark absorbers."

You'll notice that there is always a lot less darkness in the near vicinity of a dark absorber than there is further away from it. Large dark absorbers (such as those found in parking lots and stadiums) have the capacity to absorb much more darkness than the common dark absorbers found in people's homes. And of course, once a dark absorber is full, it can no longer absorb darkness, and often develops a dark spot on the bulb to indicate it has reached its capacity for darkness.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

That’s the advantage of liberalism, you can take what is true from people and toss out what is false, unlike your hypocritical it’s 100% true or 100%false attitude, which is not even true that it’s the 100%truth in the case of fundamentalist Shia doctrine anyway.

I posted two totally contradicting quotes from Abdu'l-Baha. And it seems since you can't play the
-metaphor
-taken out of context
-unauthorized translation
-building a narrative of falsehood
and etc cards, your best option is to take a jab at my beliefs.

 

[danieldemol]

I posted two totally contradicting quotes from Abdu'l-Baha. And it seems since you can't play the
-metaphor
-taken out of context
-unauthorized translation
-building a narrative of falsehood
and etc cards, your best option is to take a jab at my beliefs.

Rofl so you can jab other peoples beliefs but yours are above scrutiny?! Hypocrisy with a capital H.

 

[Vinayaka]

So if I hang around with a group of athletes long enough without even trying to become one, after a while their athletism will seep into me and make me like them? Or maybe if we leave a cancer patient long enough among a crowd of healthy people, that person will eventually be cured due to their health slowly seeping into him.

Something like that. Too bad it doesn't work. I do believe certain things 'rub off' from people to people. Too bad physical health isn't one of them. Accents do though, if one is susceptible.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Rofl so you can jab other peoples beliefs but yours are above scrutiny?! Hypocrisy with a capital H.

Oh you're free to criticize my beliefs whenever you want. Except when it's a tactic to divert the discussion about your beliefs to something else.

 

[danieldemol]

Oh you're free to criticize my beliefs whenever you want. Except when it's a tactic to divert the discussion about your beliefs to something else.

Except that I’m a liberal and not a fundamentalist, so it’s not diverting from what I do believe in, rather an attempt to show you how much better a liberal attitude is than a fundamentalist one.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Something like that. Too bad it doesn't work. I do believe certain things 'rub off' from people to people. Too bad physical health isn't one of them. Accents do though, if one is susceptible.

Good God I found another Quote. Abdu'l-Baha believes that cancer is contagious, he also contradicts the aforementioned quote and states you can't become healthy from other healthy people. So much for his superhuman knowledge:

"… Thou hadst asked some questions; that why the blessed and spiritual souls, who are firm and steadfast, shun the company of degenerate persons. This is because, that just as the bodily diseases like consumption and cancer are contagious, likewise the spiritual diseases are also infectious. If a consumptive should associate with a thousand safe and healthy persons, the safety and health of these thousand persons would not affect the consumptive and would not cure him of his consumption. But when this consumptive associates with those thousand souls, in a short time the disease of consumption will infect a number of those healthy persons. This is a clear and self-evident question." (‘Abdu’l-Bahá: Tablet to an individual believer, October 1921: Star of the West, Vol. XII, No. 14, p. 233)​

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Except that I’m a liberal and not a fundamentalist, so it’s not diverting from what I do believe in, rather an attempt to show you how much better a liberal attitude is than a fundamentalist one.

Good for you. You can discuss that in a new thread elsewhere.

 

[Vinayaka]

Good God I found another Quote. Abdu'l-Baha believes that cancer is contagious, he also contradicts the aforementioned quote and states you can't become healthy from other healthy people. So much for his superhuman knowledge:

"… Thou hadst asked some questions; that why the blessed and spiritual souls, who are firm and steadfast, shun the company of degenerate persons. This is because, that just as the bodily diseases like consumption and cancer are contagious, likewise the spiritual diseases are also infectious. If a consumptive should associate with a thousand safe and healthy persons, the safety and health of these thousand persons would not affect the consumptive and would not cure him of his consumption. But when this consumptive associates with those thousand souls, in a short time the disease of consumption will infect a number of those healthy persons. This is a clear and self-evident question." (‘Abdu’l-Bahá: Tablet to an individual believer, October 1921: Star of the West, Vol. XII, No. 14, p. 233)​

This stuff never bothers me at all, as I know that science, especially in the field of medicine was nowhere near as accurate then as it is today. Tobacco was considered healthy. So the fact that they got it all wrong doesn't bother me. What is annoying is that modern day folks who follow such 'prophets' can't seem to admit that the prophets got it wrong. Mostly it's because of infallibility doctrine, and then the present day person's ego. For most people it's easy to say, "Yeah, he got it wrong." A liberal person would just be able to admit that, and move on.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

This stuff never bothers me at all, as I know that science, especially in the field of medicine was nowhere near as accurate then as it is today. Tobacco was considered healthy. So the fact that they got it all wrong doesn't bother me. What is annoying is that modern day folks who follow such 'prophets' can't seem to admit that the prophets got it wrong. Mostly it's because of infallibility doctrine, and then the present day person's ego. For most people it's easy to say, "Yeah, he got it wrong." A liberal person would just be able to admit that, and move on.

It bothers me because of them constantly attacking other beliefs for supposedly not being in line with science while claiming with pride that their leaders statements are scientific.

 

[Vinayaka]

It bothers me because of them constantly attacking other beliefs for supposedly not being in line with science while claiming with pride that their leaders statements are scientific.

Yes that's annoying, but only mildly to me. I allow them their beliefs.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I would judge such a person as not being 100% accurate about health and I would not listen to what such a person said.

You would want to seek advice from a component physician of course.

"According to the explicit decree of Bahá’u’lláh one must not turn aside from the advice of a competent doctor. It is imperative to consult one even if the patient himself be a well-known and eminent physician. In short, the point is that you should maintain your health by consulting a highly-skilled physician."
(‘Abdu’l-Bahá: Ibid., p. 156)

You would also be weary about those who seek to distort or misrepresent the religion of another.