Has Mankind Tied God's Hands?

[omega2xx]

Where does God use force to convert anyone? Where is oneness required? God has gently explained His way and put it all in the Bi ble for those who care to accept it.



What have we seen in history?

Wasn't meaning God converting, yet just wiping everything out, when God comes here; there are cases of YHVH just removing whole cities, world is next according to prophecy.

Plus most of the prophetic scripture is about exiling Israel/Judah... So that they would convert?

"War, and rumors of war".

Yes of course, there are lots of things I've learned, and then realized they were wrong later, so i have great faith in "I don't Know!"

Why blame God for man's failure?




No it doesn't. It teaches there will be more in heaven that can be counted(Rev 7:9). If you are going to discuss Christianity you need a better source.



Get on the list. Make Jesus your lord and Savior.



You can still find the truth, if you really want to, but you must humble yourself and ask God to show it to you.



I don't see anything in you philosophy that is resulting in unity.



Man can't be literally perfect. He can be spiritually perfect. That is whe God is looking for in man.



Man has not been given an excuse as far as I can see. We have all be given a choice.



Many will escape the destruction of the world.



Whose fighting those things?



Does man-made religion include yours? Is it also corrupted?

Wasn't meaning God converting, yet just wiping everything out, when God comes here; there are cases of YHVH just removing whole cities, world is next according to prophecy.

Plus most of the prophetic scripture is about exiling Israel/Judah... So that they would convert?

"War, and rumors of war".

Yes of course, there are lots of things I've learned, and then realized they were wrong later, so i have great faith in "I don't Know!"

 

[omega2xx]

For some reason I can't get msg #20 to come up so I can answer it. I will try again later.

 

[David T]

What if the whole story is an allegory based upon an internal process?
What if the literal story was created to keep people from knowing anything about the internal process that it describes?
What if...

I think your confusing my degree, theology as being the text it's not remotely the text at all. Theology is writers reading wtiters,reading writers reading writers writing about reading writers in a discussion about a writing and attempting to determine what writing is right and what writer is wrong in context to reading very old writings. Think of an email chain over 2,000 years. Does what is discussed actually related at all to the beginning of chain other than it's a single chain ? I see virtually zero evidence it does. In that regard you are most correct!!!

 

[Thief]

Instead of it being possible for an enlightened leader to be sent from Heaven; has mankind tied the hands of God?

With lots of religions claiming exclusivity, and dictating that their messenger was the last; have we limited God's potential to fixing the world peacefully?

With many religious minded people not being open to there being one religion globally, is there any chance for world peace before we wipe ourselves out?

Are you open to someone of Divine origin creating a universal understanding?

Why are you opposed to God creating a one world religion?

Why don't you already recognize religion is one, in being systems of understanding about life, and after?

Is there any possibility in your religious prophetic texts, that the enlightened leader can bring peace, before total annihilation?

What would you need to accept an enlightened leaders teachings; if they already partially coincide with your own?

He did it to Himself and us all at once

to form a spirit unlike Himself......
He had only substance to work with
dividing His awareness ( to be in more than one place at a time).....would talking to His own Echo
all the conversation is stale.....all at once
and the angelic seem to lack 'something'

He actually needed spirit LESS than Himself
and that creation had to be done as you now know it

and yes....... a Hands off technique is required
mind to mind seems a little hard on the people that hear His Voice
just look at what happened to His prophets
even one third of His angels rebelled.

it's lonely at the Top

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Instead of it being possible for an enlightened leader to be sent from Heaven; has mankind tied the hands of God?

Are these the only two possibilities in your view? Seems there are many many other potentialities.

With lots of religions claiming exclusivity, and dictating that their messenger was the last; have we limited God's potential to fixing the world peacefully?

So...what's new under the sun?

With many religious minded people not being open to there being one religion globally, is there any chance for world peace before we wipe ourselves out?

Yes, humanism, secularism, separation of church and state, etc are all positive avenues.

Are you open to someone of Divine origin creating a universal understanding?

Sure. So long as he stands in front of everyone, speaks in clear language, and does not exclude anyone regardless of their beliefs. Oh, and he has to actually exist. Seriously though, if there were/is a god, I'd expect this to be a minimum required responsibility of the divine. The divine can be legitimate in only one of two ways, 1) he must speak clearly in a manner that leaves no doubt, no question, no possibility of misunderstanding every single iota, or 2) he must be entirely out of the picture, invisible, no reference, no possible way for people to argue wether or not he exists or what his will might be. Any were in between, the possibility of his existence, the unclear references to his will, are a destructive force among mankind. Think about it. If all god wanted was for each of us to do good on earth hear and now, then how can the possibility of his existence/will and the conflicts it bring do anything but distract us from doing actual good. If there is a beneficial god, then the best course of action is to behave as if he did not exist, to stop wasting time arguing about what he wants, and to just do good for good's sake.

Why are you opposed to God creating a one world religion?

Anyone particular in mind? Are you applying for the job?

Why don't you already recognize religion is one, in being systems of understanding about life, and after?

Didn't you give the best answer to your own question. Because religion is religion's own worst enemy. The energy expended by different religious groups to argue, fight and kill those that do not see it there way pretty much proves that religion is NOT ONE.

Is there any possibility in your religious prophetic texts, that the enlightened leader can bring peace, before total annihilation?

In the text I was raised with, annihilation is goal. Only by cleaning the earth of sinners (unbelievers, other religions, anyone that disagrees with our view, even those that disagree on particulars, anyone that even is perfect in everyday and believes exactly like there supposed too, but weren't baptized) can lead to peace.

What would you need to accept an enlightened leaders teachings; if they already partially coincide with your own?

Um, You'd just need to point out an enlightened leader!

 

[Kenny]

Actually He did not have power to do so. For His incarnation He had to be made exactly like man(Heb 3:17). He emptied Himself of his Godly attributes(Phil 2:7)

Jn 5:30 - "I can do nothing on My own iniative..."

Your quote is correct but he was given the Holy Spirit and thus could heal because of that power. The scripture was clear when it said that Jesus wanted to do miracles but the unbelief prevented him from doing it.

Acts "How God anointed Jesus Christ of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power and how he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed of the devil for God was with him."

 

[omega2xx]

Your quote is correct but he was given the Holy Spirit and thus could heal because of that power. The scripture was clear when it said that Jesus wanted to do miracles but the unbelief prevented him from doing it.

Acts "How God anointed Jesus Christ of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power and how he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed of the devil for God was with him."

Man can't do miracles and while Jesus was a man, he could not either. He had to made exactly like us(Heb 2:17). When He emptied Himself_Phil 2:7), that included the attributes that made Him God.

 

[Kenny]

Man can't do miracles and while Jesus was a man, he could not either. He had to made exactly like us(Heb 2:17). When He emptied Himself_Phil 2:7), that included the attributes that made Him God.

He was filled with the Holy Spirit when he was baptized.Faith is the activator (woman with the issue of blood). Virtue flowed from him. It WAS the Father that worked it, but it resided within him.

 

[omega2xx]

He was filled with the Holy Spirit when he was baptized.Faith is the activator (woman with the issue of blood). Virtue flowed from him. It WAS the Father that worked it, but it resided within him.

Jesus said He did not initiate what the did or what He said. He gave all the honor to God. He could not have been exactly like man, if he was still omnipotent. To become our great High priest he had to be like us and still not sin. He was tempted like us, but He never gave into the temptations.

 

[Kenny]

Jesus said He did not initiate what the did or what He said. He gave all the honor to God. He could not have been exactly like man, if he was still omnipotent. To become our great High priest he had to be like us and still not sin. He was tempted like us, but He never gave into the temptations.

I never said he was omnipotent as a man.

Let's go back a step here. The question is "Can man stop God".

Mark 6
1 And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciplesfollow him.
2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath thisman these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even suchmighty works are wrought by his hands?
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary*, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters herewith us? And they were offended at him.
4 But Jesus said unto them*,A prophet is notwithout honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
5 And he could* there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

Matt 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Understanding that it is God the Father that does the work through Jesus, the implication here is that man, through unbelief, can stop God's desires to heal.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

If we go with explaining the current state of the world as "God having His hands tied", then wouldn't any or all of the Earth's state have been God tying His own hands? I mean, there is a laundry list of responsibility one can attribute to Him:

1. God creates man in the first place
2. God places a dastardly tree, containing dastardly fruit, just to see what happens
3. Oh, scratch that, God supposedly already knew what would happen!
4. God confuses all men at once, to stop them from building a tall tower - that had no hopes of reaching anything anyway before toppling over - laws of physics and all that.
5. Man goes about the business of segregating himself into cliques across the globe, and God supposedly appears/communicates separately and arbitrarily to many of these cliques and presents a different message to each
6. Boom... we reach the state of Christianity as it stands today. Obscurity for the win.

There are even more things that could go on the list, displaying where God has alienated certain groups or persuasions of people, where he has lost the "logical" crowd by claiming to be perfect and then flip-flopping modus operandi between "testaments" (among other things variously related to the same theme). I honestly can't think of anyone else to blame. Unless... hmm... wait... you don't think man possibly made all that stuff up do you - and that is why it is so messy and fallible? Nah... couldn't be.

 

[Kenny]

If we go with explaining the current state of the world as "God having His hands tied", then wouldn't any or all of the Earth's state have been God tying His own hands? I mean, there is a laundry list of responsibility one can attribute to Him:

I'm not sure I would call it laundry list.

God creates man in the first place

this was a masterpiece

God places a dastardly tree, containing dastardly fruit, just to see what happens

I don't think so. It was a love issue IMV.

1. [*]Oh, scratch that, God supposedly already knew what would happen!

Probably did... He had the solution already in the plan.

1. confuses all men at once, to stop them from building a tall tower - that had no hopes of reaching anything anyway before toppling over - laws of physics and all that.

No... I don't think that is how the story went. Indeed, the laws of physics wasn't the issue.

1. Man goes about the business of segregating himself into cliques across the globe, and God supposedly appears/communicates separately and arbitrarily to many of these cliques and presents a different message to each

No... I don't think that is how it went either. I think it goes more along the lines of "I am going to form my own clique regardless of what God says." God has always spoken to all people... we tend to not listen.

Sometimes we come up with our own stories to ignore what He is saying... things like "dastardly tree; confuses men" are some examples that come to mind.

1. Boom... we reach the state of Christianity as it stands today. Obscurity for the win.

So then, after man comes up with their own stories, they then come to their own conclusions.

God, to make sure we understand did this:

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Now, since its in about every language... it is being spoken to all peoples.

There are even more things that could go on the list, displaying where God has alienated certain groups or persuasions of people, where he has lost the "logical" crowd by claiming to be perfect and then flip-flopping modus operandi between "testaments" (among other things variously related to the same theme). I honestly can't think of anyone else to blame. Unless... hmm... wait... you don't think man possibly made all that stuff up do you - and that is why it is so messy and fallible? Nah... couldn't be.

So... this construct is after you created your own opinions and viewpoints. Come to think of it, Adam did the same thing. History repeats itself if we don't learn from our mistakes.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

So... this construct is after you created your own opinions and viewpoints. Come to think of it, Adam did the same thing. History repeats itself if we don't learn from our mistakes.

Excuses, excuses. Nice try.

 

[omega2xx]

I never said he was omnipotent as a man.

I didn't say or imply you did. I mentioned that to show He could not perform miracles on His own.

Let's go back a step here. The question is "Can man stop God".

Mark 6
1 And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciplesfollow him.
2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath thisman these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even suchmighty works are wrought by his hands?
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary*, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters herewith us? And they were offended at him.
4 But Jesus said unto them*,A prophet is notwithout honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
5 And he could* there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

Matt 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Understanding that it is God the Father that does the work through Jesus, the implication here is that man, through unbelief, can stop God's desires to heal.

The can stop His desire, but not a miracle if He wants to do it.

 

[Kenny]

Excuses, excuses. Nice try.

as good as yours

 

[Kenny]

The can stop His desire, but not a miracle if He wants to do it.

Interesting. I view that scripture a little different but it isn't an issue for me.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

as good as yours

I suppose at some points I do, indeed, make excuses or rely solely on supposition when explaining what I believe, or why I believe it. But I simply have no choice but to feel that mine are far more based in reality - and with that I mean reality as a person - a human of Earth - is only ever able to experience it - in the "here and now".

 

[Kenny]

I suppose at some points I do, indeed, make excuses or rely solely on supposition when explaining what I believe, or why I believe it. But I simply have no choice but to feel that mine are far more based in reality - and with that I mean reality as a person - a human of Earth - is only ever able to experience it - in the "here and now".

Of which I will make no arguments.

Simply put, my experiences in the here and now has me on a different understanding.

I respect your viewpoint.

 

[Bird123]

Instead of it being possible for an enlightened leader to be sent from Heaven; has mankind tied the hands of God?

With lots of religions claiming exclusivity, and dictating that their messenger was the last; have we limited God's potential to fixing the world peacefully?

With many religious minded people not being open to there being one religion globally, is there any chance for world peace before we wipe ourselves out?

Are you open to someone of Divine origin creating a universal understanding?

Why are you opposed to God creating a one world religion?

Why don't you already recognize religion is one, in being systems of understanding about life, and after?

Is there any possibility in your religious prophetic texts, that the enlightened leader can bring peace, before total annihilation?

What would you need to accept an enlightened leaders teachings; if they already partially coincide with your own?

Religion is a creation of mankind. Since mankind has diversity, the religions mankind creates will be diverse. With this diversity comes a diverse set of laws and rules. Mankind likes to control. God has never been limited by mankind's attempts at control.

Seems, everyone wants someone to save them. The only way to move on is to Learn the Lesson.

As for annihilation, kiddies can sometimes run havoc, however I can't see them being allowed to destroy the classroom.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Instead of it being possible for an enlightened leader to be sent from Heaven; has mankind tied the hands of God?

Would it be possible? NO.

With lots of religions claiming exclusivity, and dictating that their messenger was the last; have we limited God's potential to fixing the world peacefully?

How do you fix a world ruled by the evil one? How do you make all religions peaceful?
Are you copy and posting from other sites because these are not well thought out thread topics.

With many religious minded people not being open to there being one religion globally, is there any chance for world peace before we wipe ourselves out?

So how do you include atheists in the one global religion?

Are you open to someone of Divine origin creating a universal understanding?

Can you deceive yourself into believing all religions and atheism can become one religion? It makes no sense to me.

Why are you opposed to God creating a one world religion?

We are just not lying or deceiving ourselves about our own faith or that of others. God already has a religion all can follow.
Like yourself people have choice not to.

Why don't you already recognize religion is one, in being systems of understanding about life, and after?

Religion is not one as atheist are not a religion. Do you deceive yourself so easily?

Is there any possibility in your religious prophetic texts, that the enlightened leader can bring peace, before total annihilation?

Ask the athiests.

What would you need to accept an enlightened leaders teachings; if they already partially coincide with your own?

It is a ridiculous notion.