Prometheus85
Active Member
Who’s to blame for the government shutdown and why.
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Goverment Shutdown
- Thread starter Prometheus85
- Start date
Jollybear
Hey
Both Trump & the Dems.
Because if one has the power to end it, & chooses not to, they're responsible.
Btw, greetings!
Enjoy a free....
Prometheus85
Active Member
Both Trump & the Dems.
Because if one has the power to end it, & chooses not to, they're responsible.
Btw, greetings!
Enjoy a free....
I disagree. This shut down started before the dems took the House, also The root cause of the shutdown was not a bipartisan failure of “job performance,” but rather, the president’s decision to deliberately inflict suffering on the American people, as a means of coercing a coequal branch of government into doing his bidding.
Prometheus85
Active Member
I am to blame because i pray the government shrink.
Small goverment? What does that even mean?
I hear arguments from both sides why the other is to blame.
But none is convincing.
It's always about claiming the moral high ground.
But that is lost in their disregard for the damage to the country.
Each side is willing to inflict damage (larger than the amount
in dispute) in order to win. Each side has made offers which the
other has turned down. There is room for compromise &
agreement. But they don't.
And now, Trump & Pelosi are making it about personal animosity,
which is now more important to them than solving the problem
Prometheus85
Active Member
But it is plain description of political reality. The republicans shut down the government because democrats wouldn’t give trump his wall. The government could’ve remained open while debate over the president’s border wall continues. Trump just wanted to flex his authority.
Prometheus85
Active Member
@Revoltingest lets just keep it real. one party wants to reopen the government, and conduct intra-branch diplomacy by conventional means while the other does not. There are no both sides to this.
That is your view of political reality. Mine is very different.
It takes 2 to shut down government.
(Trump claimed to intend it, but we know that his honesty is questionable.)
You say Trump did it because Dems wouldn't give him his wall.
One could also say that Dems did it because they denied Trump his wall.
When you say "Trump just wanted to flex his authority.".
It's just as easy to say the same of Pelosi & other Dems,
who also are motivated by intense anger over Hillary's loss,
& Trump's successes, eg, USSC appointments.
Prometheus85
Active Member
Cut the bullsh**.
The Senate voted 100-0 on the very same bill McConnell won’t allow a vote on.
Democrats are done negotiating with terrorists.
Prometheus85
Active Member
Sorry but speaker pelosi passed many bills to open govt. GOP Senators could force a vote by refusing to do Senate business or caucus with Dems. Verbal platitudes are worthless. Americans are now selling plasma to cover bills.
Always.
Do you think otherwise?
If the Dems really wanted to end the shutdown, they could.
It has already cost more than is in dispute.....a mere $5B.
But no....Pelosi has made it personal.
And with Trump, this bullying-the-bully approach is a
counter-productive negotiation tool. Bargaining requires
ramping down animosity, not increasing it with a hothead
like Trump. She must know this, given her vast experience.
So why does she choose to derail re-funding government?
I suspect it's a political move for the 2020 election.
So the country must endure suffering for political gain.
You must learn to be civil if you want others to converse with you.
Otherwise you'll just be preaching to the choir.
Prometheus85
Active Member
Wrong.
the $1.6 BILLION in border security that the Senate passed unanimously in Decemver and the Democratic House passed in January.
Yell at trump and Mitch McConnell to do HIS job and let the Senate vote now. #WheresMitch?
Prometheus85
Active Member
So what is your solution? Have the Dems give the President $5 billion of taxpayer money on a wall that is unneeded and the majority of the country is against? How about trump and republicans take the 1.6 billion on border security and open the government, which is what the Dems propose?
Prometheus85
Active Member
@Revoltingest
"Both sides” is a BS complaint when one side is engaged in colossal bad faith.
"Both sides” is a BS complaint when one side is engaged in colossal bad faith.
Prometheus85
Active Member
You went form playing both sides argument to soley blaming Nancy Pelosi and the democrats and it’s exhausting
We've covered this in other threads.
I have really useful advice for inspiring conversation.....
1) Don't get angry over disagreement.
2) Consider merit in the other side's posts.
3) Be original.
4) Be civil.
5) Be interesting.
6) Don't presume that you have "The Truth".
7) See #4 & #6 again.
8) Don't misrepresent others.
Prometheus85
Active Member
Hey, man, had Obama said “Give me $5 billion to put up a wall, and republicans refused calling the wall a waste of tax payer money and Obama and the dems shutdown the gov in retaliation would you still say both sides? or would you have called it out for the narcissistic stunt it’d have been? Because that’s what this wall is.
Prometheus85
Active Member
@Revoltingest lets not forget...MEXICO WAS SUPPOSED TO PAY FOR IT!