Good video of cops shooting a guy.

[jeager106]

A bad guy that is.
Dramatic gunfight in Arizona Walmart caught on video

I only saw the video not
the story so I don't know if anyone died or not.
If the bad guy died then who cares?

Edit: I'm very sorry I said "who cares".
I never, not once, fired a shot at another human in my over 2 decades on the job.
I sure could have, and 3 times almost did.
I'm soooooooooooo very grateful I didn't.
I've known officers that killed men "in the line" and not one of them served long enough
to retire with time served.
They all were so troubled that they required therapy and eventually took disability
retirements.
You see most police officers really want to help others, not kill people.
I served over 10 years as a criminal investigator then made rank and took over a shift
as command officer.
I was in charge of the S.W.A.T. team and designated lead sniper.
I was taught by a famous military sniper named Carlos Hathcock who had 93 confirmed
kills in combat.
He wasn't quite "right" after that if you get my meaning.
Three of the times I could have shot someone and didn't it worked out.
One gave up and two committed suicide.
I wish I could forget some things.
Like the time I was trying to talk an old guy out of
shooting himself when he blew his head off right in front of me with a shotgun.
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Sometimes I still have bad dreams about that.
To this day I fight the urge to go buy a bottle and get lost in it.
No one goes through such trauma without a damaged mind.

 

[Kirran]

"If the bad guy died then who cares?" - this isn't TV, these are real complex multifaceted people who die in these situations. Sometimes it's sadly necessary for the maintenance of public safety, but it's still a tragic occurrence and we should do what we can to keep situations from getting to that point.

 

[Neo Deist]

A bad guy that is.
Dramatic gunfight in Arizona Walmart caught on video

I only saw the video not
the story so I don't know if anyone died or not.
If the bad guy died then who cares?

Full details as I know this case quite well: 24 year old Mitchell Oakley had previously been trespassed from that Walmart. When he came back, a store employee called for the police. When the police arrived (Officers Pueblo and Colwell), Oakley pulled out a pistol and started firing at the officers. Off. Pueblo was struck and injured, but not killed. Off. Colwell (the one sliding on the floor) returned fire and fatally shot Oakley, who later died. Both officers were struck by bullets, but their body armor stopped any fatal shots.

Oakley had been to prison before for assault and vehicle theft.

Addendum: on the video, you see one officer run for cover to the right. That was Pueblo after he had been shot and injured.

As far as the suspect being killed goes...F-him. Good riddance.

 

[suncowiam]

"If the bad guy died then who cares?" - this isn't TV, these are real complex multifaceted people who die in these situations. Sometimes it's sadly necessary for the maintenance of public safety, but it's still a tragic occurrence and we should do what we can to keep situations from getting to that point.

Let's get specific and not just generalize the situation.

This individual had the following rapport:

"Oakley had served a few months in prison for attempted aggravated assault and vehicle theft."

We know, he was willing to kill others because he had a gun and continued a gun fight with police officers. Seems to me that he is very capable of hurting others illegally for his own gain.

I don't care what his background is or how he grew up. Every adult makes choices and have to own up to their actions. Instead of crying for these criminals, why not show more support to actual victims and law officers that risk their lives to stop these individuals from hurting more people.

 

[Kirran]

Let's get specific and not just generalize the situation.

This individual had the following rapport:

"Oakley had served a few months in prison for attempted aggravated assault and vehicle theft."

We know, he was willing to kill others because he had a gun and continued a gun fight with police officers. Seems to me that he is very capable of hurting others illegally for his own gain.

I don't care what his background is or how he grew up. Every adult makes choices and have to own up to their actions. Instead of crying for these criminals, why not show more support to actual victims and law officers that risk their lives to stop these individuals from hurting more people.

Therefore 'yay someone got killed'?

 

[suncowiam]

Therefore 'yay someone got killed'?

Actually yeah, I'm fine with that. A criminal that has been shown to be willing to kill others was killed. I have no emotional loss with this one.

What next, you're going to ask me to show empathy for extreme cases of serial killers or rapists.

I'll save my empathy for folks that are more deserving.

 

[Kirran]

Actually yeah, I'm fine with that. A criminal that has been shown to be willing to kill others was killed. I have no emotional loss with this one.

What next, you're going to ask me to show empathy for extreme cases of serial killers or rapists.

I'll save my empathy for folks that are more deserving.

I personally feel very sorry for serial killers and rapists, as well as for their victims. It is very sad that they have descended to such a pathetic state.

 

[suncowiam]

I personally feel very sorry for serial killers and rapists, as well as for their victims. It is very sad that they have descended to such a pathetic state.

By your logic, you would help a serial killer as much as you would help their victims (those that survive somehow)?

 

[Kirran]

By your logic, you would help a serial killer as much as you would help their victims (those that survive somehow)?

What do you mean help them? I would like to see them get into a place where society is safe from their illness and where efforts can be made to cure them and provide them with some rehabilitation.

 

[suncowiam]

What do you mean help them? I would like to see them get into a place where society is safe from their illness and where efforts can be made to cure them and provide them with some rehabilitation.

So you're only focusing on the serial killer. No mention of how you would help any potential victims?

So criminals and victims deserve equal assistance and empathy. You know what... I'm going to skip on this conversation. Thanks

 

[Kirran]

So you're only focusing on the serial killer. No mention of how you would help any potential victims?

So criminals and victims deserve equal assistance and empathy. You know what... I'm going to skip on this conversation. Thanks

Well you asked me about the serial killer, not about the victims. Obviously the victims are deserving of help to the best of our abilities. All people deserve equal respect and dignity, as far as I am concerned. Including those who are mentally ill enough to cause such massive trauma to others.

 

[jeager106]

I personally feel very sorry for serial killers and rapists, as well as for their victims. It is very sad that they have descended to such a pathetic state.

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

I dunno 'bout that line of thinking.
It IS sad people degenerate into such a state, I agree 100% with that.
Being as I have considerable experience in police work thus dealing
with the miscreants of this world I have a hard time feeling "sorry" for them
Sad about the situation for sure.
We ALL have choices. I've known people with really bad, bad, childhood
experiences including yours truly.
I CHOSE a different path eventually becoming a police officer.
I never hurt anyone not hurting me.
As a matter of bad luck perhaps the city I policed was always in the
top 10 cities for violent crime in Ohio. It wasn't a big city, just average
I suppose, about 40 to 50,000 souls yet the violent crime was all out of
proportion to it's size.
13 serious injuries and my back broken four times.
The last broken back put me in rehab for nine months.
I never worked as a cop after that.
I suffer permanent intractable pain every single day.
Then there is the psychological damage and pain.
It's o.k. though. I can walk.

 

[Kirran]

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

I dunno 'bout that line of thinking.
It IS sad people degenerate into such a state, I agree 100% with that.
Being as I have considerable experience in police work thus dealing
with the miscreants of this world I have a hard time feeling "sorry" for them
Sad about the situation for sure.
We ALL have choices. I've known people with really bad, bad, childhood
experiences including yours truly.
I CHOSE a different path eventually becoming a police officer.
I never hurt anyone not hurting me.
As a matter of bad luck perhaps the city I policed was always in the
top 10 cities for violent crime in Ohio. It wasn't a big city, just average
I suppose, about 40 to 50,000 souls yet the violent crime was all out of
proportion to it's size.
13 serious injuries and my back broken four times.
The last broken back put me in rehab for nine months.
I never worked as a cop after that.
I suffer permanent intractable pain every single day.
Then there is the psychological damage and pain.
It's o.k. though. I can walk.

I am glad you can walk!

I do agree with you that it is often hard to feel bad for such people. But I don't think that's reason that we shouldn't do it.

 

[Neo Deist]

Well you asked me about the serial killer, not about the victims. Obviously the victims are deserving of help to the best of our abilities. All people deserve equal respect and dignity, as far as I am concerned. Including those who are mentally ill enough to cause such massive trauma to others.

There are sheep.
There are wolves.
There are sheep dogs.

 

[Kirran]

There are sheep.
There are wolves.
There are sheep dogs.

We had a sheepdog when I was growing up. She was a very sweet animal. Her name was Mousey. Used to get scared of the rams though. Nevertheless my dad had had her many years, having bought her long before he got a quad bike. She produced many puppies as well, although that was before my time.

She was somewhat perplexed by my arrival. My mum moving to the farm was weird enough for her, let alone this strange little creature.

 

[Aštra’el]

"Bad guys" do not exist; this is merely people subjectively perceiving themselves as protagonists while perceiving those whom they feel against as antagonists.

 

[jeager106]

What do you mean help them? I would like to see them get into a place where society is safe from their illness and where efforts can be made to cure them and provide them with some rehabilitation.

@Kirran
I get that 100%.
That's why we have PRISONS.
Rehabilitation????????????
It means "make suitable, fit".

Ain't gonna happen.
Over two decades in the means streets getting "acquainted" with
the miscreants of society taught me lessons one just can't buy.
Tell that to a victim I knew.
She was raped.
She was raped by a guy that served 10 years for forcible rape.
He wasn't out on parole 3 months before he raped her.
I arrested the guy for raping her and darned near shot him dead.
His parole officer immediately revoked his parole so there was NO WAY
he could possibly make bond somehow and disappear.
Near as recall he got 40 to life AFTER he served his parole violation
of about 10 years.
IF he got out he'd be too old to rape again.
But then rape is NEVER about sex.
Then there was the guy on parole for raping a 6 year old boy.
I arrested him after he raped another little boy.
Imagine the trauma for a little boy that got one up the rear end?
That kid will NEVER be well again.
Dam#$^#$ but I've seen so much horror.
I fight buying a bottle every single day of my life!
Fact is I'm going to an A.A. meeting tonight.
If I don't I'll weaken and buy that bottle and this time it might just
kill me.
3 rehabs, twice nearly dead from alcohol poisoning.
I don't wanna die like that.
"God please don't let me see another violent death".

 

[jeager106]

"Bad guys" do not exist; this is merely people subjectively perceiving themselves as protagonists while perceiving those whom they feel against as antagonists.

Are you serious?????????????????????????

 

[jeager106]

I am glad you can walk!

I do agree with you that it is often hard to feel bad for such people. But I don't think that's reason that we shouldn't do it.

I'm happy you can feel that way.
I wish I could.
I'm still learning to feel.
P.T.S.D. depression, alcoholism, due to the "misunderstood" of our
society and the victims that suffered.
By the way.
I'm still in psychotherapy for p.t.s.d., depression and such due to those "misunderstood".
I still dream ya know and wish I didn't.
I recall "mom". Back then an old black lady who was a cook where we ate breakfast
often and we got to know her well.
Love her actually thus we called her "mom".
I'm glad you can't see her as I last saw her.
Stabbed in the face uncountable times with a butter knife.
By her adult son.
One of those "less fortunate ones".
Can you imagine her suffering before she passed?
And more. A lot more.

 

[suncowiam]

"Bad guys" do not exist; this is merely people subjectively perceiving themselves as protagonists while perceiving those whom they feel against as antagonists.

OMG! You have not been the victim of VIOLENT crime have you?