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Good guys with guns were killed by "Good guys" with guns. Well, maybe!

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Las Vegas rampage leaves five dead, including two police officers*-*Los Angeles Times
Two killers — a man and a woman — walked into a pizzeria here at midday, beginning a bloody Sunday rampage that left five people dead, including two on-duty police officers ambushed as they were having lunch.

"The revolution is about to start," one of the killers shouted after the pair had gunned down the officers and grabbed their weapons and ammunition and stormed into a nearby Wal-Mart. An unidentified woman was shot and killed just inside the Wal-Mart, police said. As frantic shoppers scrambled and fell to the floor while trying to reach the store's back exits, the pair stalked the aisles, exchanging fire with arriving officers.

Sheriff's office: Las Vegas couple saw police as oppressors - CNN.com
Among the clues: a "Don't Tread on Me" flag and a Nazi swastika the couple placed on one of the police officers they ambushed Sunday at a pizza restaurant. They pinned onto the other officer's body a note saying something to the effect of "this is the beginning of the revolution," Second Assistant Sheriff Kevin McMahill told reporters.

"We don't necessarily believe that they are white supremacists or associated with the Nazi movement. We believe that they equate government and law enforcement ... with Nazis," McMahill said. "In other words, they believe that law enforcement is the oppressor."

Everyone's a good guy with a gun until they break the law. These two candidates for the (Darwin Awards) were nothing more than "Domestic Terrorist".....they were hardly "patriots".......
 
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Agha

New Member
The problem isn't so much with guns as it is with the people that own them. If I am not mistaken, Switzerland is the top country for firearms ownership and they are a relatively peaceful nation. I tend to think that we Americans are just far more violent and unreasonable by nature than some of the other people on this earth. :confused:
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I'm not sure what the deal with Switzerland is exactly, but I'm fairly certain it is an outlier.

It is also fairly clear that violence is enabled and fed by the social mentality that trivializes and even glamourizes the possession and use of firearms.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
The problem isn't so much with guns as it is with the people that own them. If I am not mistaken, Switzerland is the top country for firearms ownership and they are a relatively peaceful nation. I tend to think that we Americans are just far more violent and unreasonable by nature than some of the other people on this earth. :confused:

And as a gun owner myself I would tend to agree with you. I'm not making an argument against guns...rather the notion that guns in the hands of supposed "good guys" means very little if said good guys are the ones breaking the law. I've always been of the opinion that every gun owner is a law abiding citizen until he/she crosses the line and breaks the law with their firearm. In this instance...the good guys (The police) were gunned down while eating lunch........while I'm comfortable with firearms in the hands of Americans....I'm always nervous when I enter an establishment in some states that have open carry and people are walking around with semi-automatic rifles.....to me it doesn't really seem all that different than other countries in Africa or the middle east. It seems that these two individuals were nutty to begin with but not enough to be an actionable offense...They were law abiding citizens until these "good guys" broke the law....
 

Saint Frankenstein

Gone
Premium Member
The problem isn't so much with guns as it is with the people that own them. If I am not mistaken, Switzerland is the top country for firearms ownership and they are a relatively peaceful nation. I tend to think that we Americans are just far more violent and unreasonable by nature than some of the other people on this earth. :confused:

Pretty much. America is a very sick culture.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Switzerland doesn't suffer from the same social ills the US does. In particular, income inequality and the failure to correct poor public policy that creates poverty and discontent.

It's common all over the world, all throughout history, for disenfranchised and marginalized people in poverty to become violent, with or without guns.

No doubt the US obsession with and tolerance of guns makes these scenarios much more deadly than they otherwise would be, but well fed, adequately housed, educated, gainfully employed gun owners rarely bother to try starting a revolution.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Gone
Premium Member
A friend they were staying with saw them leave with the guns and ammo and they even told a neighbor that they were going to carry out an attack, but the two idiots didn't call the cops! Wtf?! :facepalm:
 

Agha

New Member
I'm not sure what the deal with Switzerland is exactly, but I'm fairly certain it is an outlier.

It is also fairly clear that violence is enabled and fed by the social mentality that trivializes and even glamourizes the possession and use of firearms.
I disagree, slightly. My thoughts are more inline with Alceste's. Yes, the possession and use of firearms is glamorized, but I don't think that is the only problem. The bigger issue, in my humble opinion, is that violence is trivialized and glamorized. With or without guns, people would behave the same. Just look at the UK. Guns are either severely restricted or proscribed (I can't quite remember). After the restrictions were enacted, violent crime didn't decrease; rather, knife attacks increased. Guns aren't the only factor. It's a culture that glamorizes violence in general that is to blame. Guns are only a means to an end.

I've always been of the opinion that every gun owner is a law abiding citizen until he/she crosses the line and breaks the law with their firearm

(I removed a majority of your quote to save space.)

I agree with almost everything you have said. I am not bothered by guns in particular; I am bothered by the people that own them and the ease at which they can be obtained. Personally, I would be very happy if the world could be eliminated of all violent weapons, but that will never happen. You can't get rid of the weapons, but hopefully, one day, we can get rid of the sick mentality that drives people to use them against other human beings.

Pretty much. America is a very sick culture.
Agreed. I have personally had violent thoughts and fantasies in the past. It sickens me to think about them. It sickens me even more to know that the vast majority of my fellow Americans probably have them too. What is to stop us from acting on them? Where did we learn that it's acceptable to have such thoughts?

Switzerland doesn't suffer from the same social ills the US does. In particular, income inequality and the failure to correct poor public policy that creates poverty and discontent.
I couldn't agree more. I think that as a society, we need to address these issues. I remember watching a documentary on gang violence a while back. A former gangster (I am referring to the real type; not the wannabe kiddie gangsters) spoke about how he had joined up because he didn't have any other outlets. He was young, angry, and didn't have a bright future or a life worth living. The gangs offered what he needed. I assume that if he had been provided with more opportunities and a better outlook, he would have not felt the need to join a criminal organization.

A friend they were staying with saw them leave with the guns and ammo and they even told a neighbor that they were going to carry out an attack, but the two idiots didn't call the cops! Wtf?! :facepalm:
This is tricky. I, personally, have the mentality that if somebody I knew was serious about carrying out an attack, they would not brag about it prior to carrying it out. If somebody said that to me, I would assume they were joking and probably just going out to hunt. That's why I think that it would be best if people didn't joke about violence. It would solve a lot of issues.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Gone
Premium Member
This is tricky. I, personally, have the mentality that if somebody I knew was serious about carrying out an attack, they would not brag about it prior to carrying it out. If somebody said that to me, I would assume they were joking and probably just going out to hunt. That's why I think that it would be best if people didn't joke about violence. It would solve a lot of issues.

That's part of the problem. A lot of school shooters have made similar comments to classmates before going on their rampages. People need to start taking those comments seriously. It's better for it be a false alarm than for it to happen when it could've been so easily prevented.
 
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