God's Attitude Toward Homosexuality

[Prestor John]

If that instructor was say LDS and he said that to the woman to ease her aprehension then afterwards was fired for it, the law suit would not be denied.

Didn't Zarda's side eventually win that case?

Anyways, employees should not be talking about their sexuality or religion to customers. Period.

Not only did his comment make the customer uncomfortable, but she claimed that he also touched her in ways that made her feel even more uncomfortable.

Maybe he mentioned his sexuality to justify manhandling her a bit? I don't know the truth behind these claims. I wasn't there. But a company would fire any employee that had such a complaint made against them.

I could be disciplined if I spoke about my religion or proselyted while working. I could get fired if I tried to use my religious affiliation to justify something I did or said that made a customer feel uncomfortable.

The public outrage would be global.

I don't think so. The LDS Church aren't "media darlings" like homosexuals.

Remember, to be religious is a choice unlike being gay.

That is a matter of opinion.

The important thing to understand is that all it requires to realize such treatment is wrong is to use empathy. Jesus preached this as did many other faiths and philosophies "do unto others....."

First off, this is a matter of personal belief. We should not be trying to write Christ's teachings into law, therefore, forcing other people to live by them.

Separation of Church and State.

Second, I don't want employees anywhere talking to me about their sexuality. And I don't want to discuss my sexuality with them either.

That's your perfect "Do unto others..." scenario.

"You don't tell me about your sexuality and I won't tell you about mine."

Just in case you want to use the argument that a loving homosexual adult consenting coulple is the same as a pedophile , please look at that logically. They are not the same. I wont go into that argument unless you want it.

I have used the example of pedophilia in arguments against homosexuality, but not in the way you are espousing.

I am not comparing two consenting adults helping one another masturbate or whatever to a child being exploited.

However, I have used the example of pedophilia to point out that there is such a concept as "inappropriate love".

Where someone draws the line at what is or is not "inappropriate love" depends on the individual, but I believe that romantic and sexual love should only be had between a man and woman who are legally and lawfully wedded.

That's it.

I consider pre-marital sex to be just as harmful to our souls as homosexual behavior, but pre-marital sex has more potential to be repented of.

One of the problems i see with all of the monotheistic Abramic mesianic faiths is that calls for the demonization of certain groups of people such as blacks, homosexuls, atheists, other faiths, and other denominations.

I believe that people do this, not the true tenets of these faiths.

This over rides natural empathy and has been the cause of many dire evils in history.

I don't subscribe to the idea that religion is a source of mankind's woes. it has done more good than harm.

Socialism has killed more people than religion has.

 

[Prestor John]

Oh the whole "please think of the children" rhetoric. Please don't tell me you sincerely went with the "Helen Lovejoy" route?

Humans are a tribal species. Back before marriage was a thing (and even now where ancient tribal traditions thrive including in the West) humans raised children together as a large group unit. The whole mother and father unit is actually a fairly recent phenomenon, even in the West. It used to be normal for grandparents and even in laws to help raise children. The nuclear family model you are referring to is literally modern. As in it became far more prominent during the 1950s. (Hence its name, the nuclear family.)

I'm half Indian living in Aus and even now the oldies think only a mother and father raising a child is a cold harsh "gora" way the West adopted, cutting short the potential family warmth one can actually have in life.
Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, sisters, in laws etc are always a large part in raising our younglings since we pride ourselves on community togetherness and family.

Besides studies have shown time and time and time again that gay parents raise just as many stable progeny than their heterosexual counterparts. This in spite of the rejection and snooty attitude heterosexuals have towards gay parents. Kids who have gay parents fare no worse and in some cases even better than their peers with a heterosexual couple raising them.
So we've studied this and found the opposite of what you're claiming, just FYI.

What's best for the kids? How about as a community supporting and helping their parents regardless of sexual orientation or their situation? Whether adopted, being raised by two dads or with step family or grandparents only. That's what we do that's in the best interests of a child. Condemning shaming or otherwise looking down on the kids family situation only increases their chances of developing anxiety, stress and even low self esteem.

You claim you're against homosexuality based on the kids. But from I can see you're merely using them as a shield to justify your own biases. That's kind of low, man. Not going to lie.

I love the Helen Lovejoy reference.

Awesome.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Did you know that not remembering the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a sin?

To whom was this law given? The Children of Israel. Unless I'm really mixed up, you are part of the church. You are not a Jew. Israel was asked to keep the Sabbath in order to remember our deliverance from Egypt. Your people were never delivered from Egypt. If you want to keep the sabbath and you feel it brings you nearer to God, go for it. But really, you are under no obligation to. None.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's no wonder that you don't believe in the Bible or in Christianity if you hold such ridiculous misconceptions and misinterpretations.

You believe that Paul was advocating that all Christians should be celibate?

Not only does that violate the very first commandment God ever gave to Mankind, but it contradicts the teachings of Christ and Paul's own words.

I could walk through the his first epistle to the Corinthians with you if you want, but I doubt you'd want to learn anything.

All you are apt to do is to reinterpret it to match your prejudices and nothing more. Extremists tend to argue by quoting out of context, even when working on a large section of the Bible.

Whos is "we" in this comment?

It is no wonder that the purposes and meaning of the Atonement of Christ allude<sic> you.

You can't understand the need for an infinite Atonement without there having been a literal Fall of Man.

Does the Genesis account record a world-wide Flood or a localized event?

The "we" is people that have more than half of a functioning brain. There was no "Fall of Man" and "infinite Atonement" is more nonsense that you made up. Your inability to understand the Bible is largely due to your inability to face reality. The flood was a myth. There are countless different Christian interpretations of Genesis and the problem with it is that one can keep diminishing the flood as you seem to want to to explain for its lack of evidence until you get to the point where you make the Ark itself superfluous. A local flood clearly would not do the job that the flood was supposed to do. But your response is why I ask flood believers to tell me what their version of the flood is first. Non-literalists tend to be afraid to do so because they know that the story is a myth no matter how one looks at it.

]


He was recognized by the Brethren in Jerusalem.

How do you know? Yes, he convinced some people that the was right, but then so did David Koresh and Jim Jones. There have been countless people with obviously false interpretations of the Bible that we know of only because how badly they failed at the end. There have obviously been other false teachers that we did not recognize who's followers would have been reabsorbed.

Did you know that not remembering the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a sin?

I don't think avoiding church or watching football games on Sundays actively "harms" anyone, but they are sins all the same.

You appear no different than your false perception of Paul.

You think that you somehow have the authority to decide what is or is not sinful. Why is that?

Why do you feel that you are qualified to decide how the universe works?

Actually none of those are "sin". They are according to your book of myths, but we are talking the real world here. I am qualified because I try to reason and think. You only follow your prejudices and use the Bible as an excuse. I am willing to admit that I may be wrong which is why I rely on evidence. You believe in refuted works of people that ranged from terribly ignorant tribal sheep herders to the New Age kooks of their time.

You understand that this is a classic case of circular reasoning called "begging the question"?

No, it is not. You are ignoring how we know of the connection between homophobia and latent homosexuality. You are the one that employs that logical fallacy. At any time if you want to go over a point in more detail you can ask about that point in a separate thread. When you go into your Gish Gallops, as you tend to do far to often, you will only get quick corrections.

I'm not surprised by this comment because, as I said above, you accept ridiculous interpretations of scripture.

The Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price are the word of God.

Even the words of modern-day prophets are the Word of God.

Once again, more projection by you. Why do you claim that your God is a vile, incompetent, bumbling, fool?

Something being "natural" is not "ideal" or "correct".

I don't care how "natural" cannibalism is, I won't eat my children.

Wow! So you don't know what is natural or not and you have to build a giant strawman. Don't accuse others of using logical fallacies when you make such a grand example of your own ignorance. But this does tell us that you may be latent. You appear to have some attraction to those of your own sex since you have to compare that attraction to cannibalism. You can hopefully understand why cannibalism is wrong. You then try to attack something that you cannot show to be wrong with something that you can show to be wrong. That is weak. Try again.

 

[SomeRandom]

I don't know who Helen Lovejoy is. I've reached my opinions with a little help from Dennis Prager, and a lot of thinking about things on my own for long, long periods of time, years, decades.

Extended family living is what we have evolved into. The changes that have come in the last 150 years have happened to fast for our species to adjust to it. The nuclear family is not entirely natural -- it was a necessary adjustment to the industrial revolution. It is the degradation of the extended family. Today, we have gone even further down the slippery slope. What we have now is the degradation of the nuclear family. And it's not good for kids, which in turn affects society negatively.

Helen Lovejoy is a character in the Simpsons. She's the annoying one yelling "oh won't someone please think of the children" whenever something remotely scandalous happens. A satire of those overreacting parent types that react against anything new or that they don't understand.

We have been studying the effects of gay parenting since like the 90s.
Every one I have encountered says that it makes no difference, as long as the parenting unit are stable.
But I'm not a scientist, so perhaps my apathy has prevented me seeing scientific studies that suggest otherwise.

 

[Prestor John]

To whom was this law given? The Children of Israel. Unless I'm really mixed up, you are part of the church. You are not a Jew. Israel was asked to keep the Sabbath in order to remember our deliverance from Egypt. Your people were never delivered from Egypt. If you want to keep the sabbath and you feel it brings you nearer to God, go for it. But really, you are under no obligation to. None.

Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath, for it was He who gave the Law and Commandments to the Children of Israel.

Today we keep the Sabbath to remember that He died for us and that He rose again.

 

[Skwim]

Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath, for it was He who gave the Law and Commandments to the Children of Israel.

Today we keep the Sabbath to remember that He died for us and that He rose again.

Boy, I would think that maybe four times a year would be a sufficient number of reminders, or at the very most, once a month. Would you not remember if reminded once a month?

.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath, for it was He who gave the Law and Commandments to the Children of Israel.

Today we keep the Sabbath to remember that He died for us and that He rose again.

No, all of that came from "God the Father". From my understanding Mormons are not trinitarians and since there are quite a few verses where Jesus makes it clear that he is not "God the Father" it would appear that you are in error about even the LDS version of your faith:

14 Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God | Interfaith forums

 

[Katzpur]

No, all of that came from "God the Father". From my understanding Mormons are not trinitarians and since there are quite a few verses where Jesus makes it clear that he is not "God the Father" it would appear that you are in error about even the LDS version of your faith:

14 Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God | Interfaith forums

You're right about Mormons not being trinitarians, and you are right that we don't believe that Jesus is "God the Father." Where you're wrong -- and it's not surprising, since most people don't realize this -- is that we believe that Jesus Christ is the individual known as Jehovah in the Old Testament. That is the name by which we believe He was known prior to His birth in Bethlehem. We believe that most of the references in the Old Testament to "God" are actually about Jesus Christ/Jehovah? We believe that God the Father is known as Elohim.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath, for it was He who gave the Law and Commandments to the Children of Israel.

Today we keep the Sabbath to remember that He died for us and that He rose again.

My friend, it is important to remember that although I have no problems with you being a Christian, that I myself am a Jew, so appealing to the Christian scriptures doesn't work for me. To me they are wonderful religious writings on par with the Quran, the Book of Mormon, the Vedas, the Sutras... combining wisdom and error. Most importantly, they simply aren't the sacred texts of MY people. If you are going to try to use scripture as an authority with me, you'll need to stick to the Torah (the books of law). As far as I'm concerned, Jesus had zero to do with the giving of the Law to Israel.

Now, does the Bible contradict itself? I assume you believe it does not. Therefore I should be able to quote from the Tanakh (what you call the OT) and it will be authoritative to you.

So I ask you again, to whom did God give the Law for keeping the Sabbath in the Torah? And the LORD said, "Speak to the Children of Israel." Not the world. For this reason I was making the point that Gentiles need not keep the Shabbat.

And as for the words of Jesus, Jesus preached to the lost children of Israel (sinful Jews). He did not go to the world -- in fact he told his disciples to NOT visit Gentiles when he sent them out on their journey. Although he didn't abrogate the 613 commandments, he didn't put them on Gentiles either.

 

[columbus]

Today we keep the Sabbath

The Sabbath is Friday sunset until Saturday sunset.

Just in case your church failed to teach you what "Sabbath" means.
Tom

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Sabbath is Friday sunset until Saturday sunset.

Just in case your church failed to teach you what "Sabbath" means.
Tom

Thank you!!!

I'd also be interested in what he means by "keep the Sabbath." Torah says not to kindle a flame on the sabbath. Does he turn on his stove? And where does he go to get answers on whether something is work or not -- what authority will he look to? Because the Torah certainly isn't explicit.

I have no problems with Gentles who want to keep a seventh day holy. I think that for example, having a day off work is just healthier for us in general, all religion aside. And if they do it for religious reasons, I'm not going to interfere. I even think there is something to be said for Gentiles that want to draw closer to Israel by keeping elements of the Sabbath. But I am amazed at just how divorced from Sabbath keeping these Sabbath keepers actually get.

 

[columbus]

Thank you!!!

I'd also be interested in what he means by "keep the Sabbath." Torah says not to kindle a flame on the sabbath. Does he turn on his stove?

It gets better.

According to Jesus, "the Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath".
Tom

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It gets better.

According to Jesus, "the Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath".
Tom

A good example of Jesus teaching Oral Torah. Most Christians don't realize how most of what Jesus taught was not original or new at all. In fact, this oral teaching is now in the Talmud: "Rabbi Jonathan ben Joseph said: For it is holy unto you; I.e., it [the Sabbath] is committed to your hands, not you to its hands." - Talmud: Yoma 85b

 

[IndigoChild5559]

@columbus

Hey, how did you change what it says under your nick. My just says Active Member and I don't know how to play around with that.

 

[columbus]

@columbus

Hey, how did you change what it says under your nick. My just says Active Member and I don't know how to play around with that.

I am no expert,
But what I remember is
1) click on your avatar
2) click on "your profile"
3) click "your title"

Change it to whatever you want.

4) click on "save changes".

Staff members are better at this sort of explanation.
@Quagmire. ?
Tom

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're right about Mormons not being trinitarians, and you are right that we don't believe that Jesus is "God the Father." Where you're wrong -- and it's not surprising, since most people don't realize this -- is that we believe that Jesus Christ is the individual known as Jehovah in the Old Testament. That is the name by which we believe He was known prior to His birth in Bethlehem. We believe that most of the references in the Old Testament to "God" are actually about Jesus Christ/Jehovah? We believe that God the Father is known as Elohim.

Wow! That is a bit messed up. You in effect say that there was no sacrifice on the cross in doing so. But then the supposed sacrifice fails from almost every angle.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I am no expert,
But what I remember is
1) click on your avatar
2) click on "your profile"
3) click "your title"

Change it to whatever you want.

4) click on "save changes".

Staff members are better at this sort of explanation.
@Quagmire. ?
Tom

On my profile page, I can't see any place where it says, "your title". If I click on the avatar, I get a pop up to change the avatar, but that's it.

 

[columbus]

On my profile page, I can't see any place where it says, "your title". If I click on the avatar, I get a pop up to change the avatar, but that's it.

Seriously, a staff person is much better for answering your questions.
@Brickjectivity @lewisnotmiller @Vouthon

Sorry, I am not very good at explaining this sort of thing.
Tom

 

[Katzpur]

Wow! That is a bit messed up. You in effect say that there was no sacrifice on the cross in doing so. But then the supposed sacrifice fails from almost every angle.

You've obviously misunderstood what we believe. We believe that in His pre-mortal life, the man referred to as Jesus Christ in the New Testament was known as Jehovah. We believe that He was the Jehovah of the Old Testament and is an entirely different individual from His Father (Elohim).

The last thing on earth that we believe is that there was no sacrifice on the cross. We believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin in Bethlehem and was the Son of God. We believe that He was sent to earth by His Father, lived a perfect life, taught a gospel of love and mercy, suffered in Gethsemane, died on Calvary in an atoning sacrifice for our sins, and rose again on the third day. We believe that He sits today on the right hand of His Father. I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion you did that we don't believe in His Atonement.