1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Salvador, Mar 4, 2015.

?
  1. Yes, it's possible that God recreated the Earth 6,000 years ago.

    13 vote(s)
    11.6%
  2. No, there is no way that the Earth could have been recreated 6,000 years ago.

    99 vote(s)
    88.4%
  1. 'mud

    'mud ~~ Life is Stuff ~~
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,600
    Ratings:
    +751
    Religion:
    ~~ LIFE ~~
    hey Metis,
    Oh I got the general gist of all that,
    but there's nothing anywhere that tells us,
    how they started talking !
    They didn't know how to tell us in their drawings !
    How did it start !
    ~
    'mud
     
  2. Ouroboros

    Ouroboros Coincidentia oppositorum

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    9,050
    Ratings:
    +2,494
    Religion:
    Reality's Fool / Dual-aspect pantheist
    My guess it started far in the past. Animals have forms of communication and even words to identify things. They don't have a complex grammar as we do, but they have a rudimentary "language" for communication. I suspect that when the first tools were made, that's when our need to communicate more advanced things grew. To explain to someone what kind of rock to get and how to sharpen it, it can be done visually to some degree, but some means of language was probably necessary. Simple sounds at first, but then the mutation for hyoid bone came about and people could make more sounds than before.
     
  3. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    22,480
    Ratings:
    +8,294
    Religion:
    ecumenical/unaffiliated/attend wife's Catholic church
    Apes use sounds like we do words, but their vocabulary is quite limited.

    Based on anatomical comparisons, there's some evidence that the change that really helped us to talk like we do today occurred with Homo sapiens, and this may explain why we had the edge over Neanderthals. The latter were quite intelligent, but the greater ability to mouth words allowed H.s. culture to flourish-- at least this is what some of the evidence is sorta telling us. The change that has been focused on is the positioning of the larynx in the throat, whereas with H.s. there's more up/down flexibility.
     
  4. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    35,805
    Ratings:
    +1,854
    That has the possibility for being partially inaccurate.


    The east coast also have been visited by nomadic people following the ice shelf across. We have stone tools that match each other from coast to coast.

    I leave this possibility open
     
  5. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    35,805
    Ratings:
    +1,854
    Sure. I mean Erectus probably had primitive language.

    Neanderthal probably had very close to modern man.
     
  6. shawn001

    shawn001 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    3,750
    Ratings:
    +464

    So its estimated as is the 10,000 year old fossil they found in the Pacifric NW west here, in fact a cave here in Oregon where they found the worlds oldest shoes. Nothing your mentioning shows any proof of anything and there is tons of proof the Earth is 4.5 billion years and we know how old the sun is and the planets.

    The World's Oldest Shoes


    In 1938 archaeologist Luther Cressman (from the University of Oregon) excavated at Fort Rock Cave, located in a small volcanic butte approximately half a mile west of the Fort Rock volcanic crater in central Oregon. The Fort Rock Basin is the most northwesterly sub-basin of the Great Basin, Western North America's vast intermontane desert.

    Cressman found dozens of sandals below a layer of volcanic ash, subsequently determined to come from the eruption of the Mt. Mazama volcano 7500 years ago. Named for the site where they were first found, Fort Rock-style sandals have since been reported from ancient deposits in several Northern Great Basin caves.

    [​IMG]

    Sagebrush bark sandals from Fort Rock Cave, similar to specimens radiocarbon dated from 10,500-9,300 years old.

    Fort Rock sandals are stylistically distinct. They are twined (pairs of weft fibers twisted around warps), and have a flat, close-twined sole, usually with five rope warps. Twining proceeded from the heel to the toe, where the warps were subdivided into finer warps and turned back toward the heel. These fine warps were then open-twined (with spaces between the weft rows) to make a toe flap. Cressman surmised that a tie rope attached to one edge of the sole wrapped around the ankle and fastened to the opposite edge.

    Most dated Fort Rock-style sandals are from Fort Rock Cave, but directly dated sandals of this type are also known from Cougar Mountain and Catlow Caves. Directly dated Fort Rock style sandals range in age from at least 10,500 BP to 9200 BP (based on dendrocalibrated radiocarbon ages). For more information, refer to Connolly and Cannon 1999.

    Fort Rock Sandals

    The Indians witnessed the eruption of Mt. Mazama volcano 7500 years ago.which is now Crater Lake.
     
    #526 shawn001, Apr 30, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015
    • Like Like x 2
  7. shawn001

    shawn001 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    3,750
    Ratings:
    +464
    Again, because I know Billard Ball missed it or is dishonest.

    Paleoclimatology: The Ice Core Record :

    Ice core samples going back a million years shows no flood.

    Volcanoes we know never went out they were erupting.

    Places in the Atacama dessert in Chile have had less then 2 inches of rain in almost 23 million years or more.

    Driest Place on Earth


    The driest place on Earth is in Antarctica in an area called the Dry Valleys, which have seen no rain for nearly 2 million years.

    Driest Place on Earth


    The ice age caused a massive flood in the NW, the largest anyone knows about.

    The impact from Glacial Lake Missoula and the Missoula floods can be seen in parts of Montana, Idaho, Washington, and Oregon. Testifying to the cataclysm are the ancient shorelines, ripple marks, scoured lakes, dry channels, falls, and flood debris that are still visible after nearly 12,000 years. Without seeing this evidence it is hard to imagine the enormity of the geologic event.



    Glacial Lake Missoula and the Ice Age Floods
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. shawn001

    shawn001 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    3,750
    Ratings:
    +464
    The Known Universe takes viewers from the Himalayas through our atmosphere and the inky black of space to the afterglow of the Big Bang. Every star, planet, and quasar seen in the film is possible because of the world's most complete four-dimensional map of the universe, the Digital Universe Atlas that is maintained and updated by astrophysicists at the American Museum of Natural History. The new film, created by the Museum, is part of an exhibition, Visions of the Cosmos: From the Milky Ocean to an Evolving Universe, at the Rubin Museum of Art in Manhattan through May 2010.






    Reference:
    How Old is Earth?

    "Since the planet Earth doesn't have a birth certificate to record its formation, scientists have spent hundreds of years struggling to determine the age of the planet. By dating the rocks in the ever-changing crust, as well as neighbors such as the moon and visiting meteorites, scientists have calculated that Earth is 4.54 billion years old, with an error range of 50 million years."

    How Old is Earth?


    How Old is the Solar System?

    How Old is the Solar System?


    Our Milky Way Galaxy Has Cosmic Halo 11.4 Billion Years Old

    Milky Way Galaxy's Cosmic Halo Is 11.4 Billion Years Old

     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,263
    Ratings:
    +220
    Religion:
    Messianic Jewish Christianity
    All,

    I'm aware of ice core work. Ice can show snowfall layers for about 2,000 years of snowfall, then the awesome weight of the snow compacts the core so that estimations of dates have been made.

    Likewise, the Earth has no birthday candles, so we must do things like look at rocks and isotopes and then make assumptions based on further assumptions, like standard temperature, pressure and rates of decay being in effect for five billion years.

    I've also said I believe there was an ice age following the Bible Flood. The Bible authors live in sunnier climes and didn't record this ice age. I think it helps us understand the geology and etc.
     
  10. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    22,480
    Ratings:
    +8,294
    Religion:
    ecumenical/unaffiliated/attend wife's Catholic church
    Most dates are not "estimated", nor do we jump to "assumptions" when it comes to the use of any dating technique. In anthropology, for example, we ship out our materials for purposes of dating to teams of other scientists, especially bio-chemists, nuclear physicists, etc. Needless to say, these professionals ain't prone making "assumptions" and just using "estimates" or we wouldn't be using them.
     
  11. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    35,805
    Ratings:
    +1,854
    Many things directly against credible academia

    And yet you have no credible evidence for anything you posit.

    Again no date for a flood, then there was no flood.

    Nor did they live in a place that ever flooded. It factually did not flood in any mountains of Israel. Its why you have zero credible evidence.

    We only see you doing this.
     
  12. DH1986

    DH1986 New Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Ratings:
    +1
    I thought God created the world and all of its creatures before building the garden of Eden in a barren part of the world. He creates the general earth in Genesis 1 and the garden in Genesis 2.
    That would also explain why Cain was worried about being killed by other people. Perhaps, Adam was the not the first man, but the first in a bloodline that would evolve into what would become the Jewish subculture. This would also mean that the earth could still be billions of years old and that it just skipped forward because X.
    Who was Cain afraid of? There had to be other people.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    22,480
    Ratings:
    +8,294
    Religion:
    ecumenical/unaffiliated/attend wife's Catholic church
    Or maybe it's allegory.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    13,063
    Ratings:
    +1,013
    Please quote from the scriptures where it mention literally that "God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!".

    Regards
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Salvador

    Salvador Truth Seeker

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
    202
    Ratings:
    +57
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    There could be a great gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. I had thought that extinct animals such as dinosaurs, wooly mammoths, sabre-tooth tigers and ancient hominids perhaps could have lived during this time, then the world could have been destroyed; and subsequently, the Genesis creation account that follows could have been about the remaking of the world for the creation of the first living soul Adam.

    Biblical chronology puts the time of Adam around 4,000 B.C. According to the Bible, 1,948-1,956 years elapsed from the creation of Adam until the birth of Abraham ( Genesis ) , then 529-530 years elapsed from Abraham's birth until the Ten Commandments were written ( Genesis 17:1-4) , ( Galatians 3:17). 480 years passed after this time until King Solomon's Temple was built during the fourth year of his rule in Jerusalem. ( 1 Kings 6:1 ) According to the Bible, Solomon ruled Israel for another 36 years afterwards, and several other kings ruled Jerusalem all together for 394-412 years after Solomon until the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem in 587 BC. ( Kings 1 and 2 ) Thus, the Biblical date of creation for the first living soul (Adam) on Earth was 5,989-6,016 years ago.

    Of course, there is plenty of scientific evidence that living souls ( humans ) have existed long before some 6,000 years ago. Human genetic diversity is too great for there to have ever been a human population size that consisted of less than 10,000 individuals. Pairwise Sequentially Markovian Coalescent (PSMC) analysis confirms a population bottleneck in humans that consisted of no fewer than 10,000 individuals. Source: ( Li, Heng, and Durbin, Richard. ) "Inference of Human Population History from Individual Whole-Genome Sequences". Nature International Weekly Journal of Science. 28 July 2001. PSMC estimate on simulated data. : Inference of human population history from individual whole-genome sequences : Nature : Nature Publishing Group

    If there were the most severe population bottlenecking such as one breeding pair that is portrayed in the case of the Biblical or Quranic Adam and Eve, then there would be a maximum of 4 alleles passed on by Adam and Eve to their children. Furthermore, the subsequent inbreeding would cause some loss of alleles due to genetic drifting. There would not have been genetic diversity in the small group of Adam, Eve and their children who would've had to commit incest amongst each other for the procreation of their inbred children. A lack of genetic diversity would have persisted for thousands of generations until genetic mutations could cause the genetic diversity of today's population. Based on the number of different alleles there are for the number of genes within the current population and the known rate of mutations per nucleotide sites in humans, geneticists can calculate the minimum number of people needed to create the current amount of genetic diversity. Numerous genetic studies suggest that there were several thousands of people more than two people during the most severe population bottleneck which ever occurred in human history.

    DNA segments ( Alu repeats ) insert themselves at various chromosomal locations. There are various forms of Alu sequences and several thousand families of Alu. One well-studied family of Alu is called Ya5, which has been inserted into human chromosomes at 57 mapped locations. If we were to have descended from a single pair of ancestors such as Adam and Eve, then we all would have each of the 57 elements inserted at the same location points of our chromosomes. " However, the human population consists of groups of people who share some insertion points but not others. The multiple shared categories make it clear that although a human population bottleneck occurred, it was definitely never as small as two. In fact, this line of evidence also indicates that there were at least several thousand people when the population was at its smallest". Source: ( Venema, Dennis and Falk, Darrel ) " Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple?". 5 April 2010. Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple? | The BioLogos Forum

    Coalescence theory analysis of single nucleotide polymorphisms and linkage disequilibrium indicates the mean effective population size for hominid lineage is 100,000 individuals over the course of the last 30 million years. The effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium is a minimum of 10,000 followed by an expansion in the last 20,000 years." Source: ( Tenesa, Albert, Navarro, Paul, Hayes, Ben J., Duffy, David L., Clarke,Geraldine, Goodard, Mike E. and Visscher, Peter M.) " Recent Human Effective Population Size Estimated from Linkage Disequilibrium". Genome Research. 17 April 2007 Recent human effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium
     
  16. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    13,063
    Ratings:
    +1,013
    The scriptures and or more truly the Word of Revelation from the One-True-God are for ethical, moral and spiritual uplift of human beings, as such inference from it in things material is the most unscientific thing to do.
    Why do it?
    Regards
     
  17. jonathan180iq

    jonathan180iq Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2014
    Messages:
    3,931
    Ratings:
    +2,270
    Humanity pre-dates the last Ice-Age and shows absolutely no signs of being reduced to a population of only a dozen people.
    The same is true for hundreds of animal populations...

    As sincere as your faith may be - there is simply nothing which factually supports your position.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,263
    Ratings:
    +220
    Religion:
    Messianic Jewish Christianity
    All,

    Perhaps we can agree on what an assumption is, even a scientific assumption. No modern scientists were eyewitness to any of these past events. In my lifetime, the age of the Earth has moved by billions of years.

    As for evidence of 8, not 12, people in more recent times, it has been established by scientists how the human population has, until the advent of modern medicine, doubled approximately every 125 years or so. Put 7 Billion into an Excel spreadsheet, and then divide by two every 125 years... when do you get to 8 persons? Pretty interesting... as you can imagine, I would interpret this as a piece of data where archaeology and other sciences are affirming the possibilities we see in the Holy Bible.
     
  19. Salvador

    Salvador Truth Seeker

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
    202
    Ratings:
    +57
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    The Biblical or Koranic myth of Adam and Eve would subsequently involve a story about incestuous relationships and inbred children! What's so morally uplifting about this? The Bible can't always be used as a basis for morality. For example, the Bible prescribes in some cases that a rape victim become married to her rapist. Deuteronomy 22-28:29 " If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. " Of course, the Bible is wrong to suggest that any rape victim should enter into marriage with her rapist. Also, the Bible is wrong to put a value of approximately 575 grams of silver ($400 current value) on the loss of a woman's virginity. Suppose somebody was raped and the rapist was caught and convicted. During the sentencing, the judge read out Deuteronomy 22-28-29. Then he sentenced the rape victim and her rapist into marriage and ordered the rapist to pay the rape victim's father $400 worth of silver. Would society have to accept this, because it's God's way in the Bible? Clearly now, you can see that the Bible should not always be taken as a word of revelation from the "One-True-God" nor should the Bible always be accepted as an ethical, moral or "spiritual" uplift. The Bible makes a falsifiable assertion that everybody is descendant from a man and woman who lived together 6,000 years, there is however plenty of genetic evidence that proves a different origin for our species. The truth is what matters!
     
  20. Salvador

    Salvador Truth Seeker

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
    202
    Ratings:
    +57
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Please see post #585. There is plenty of genetic evidence that suggests at least 10,000 people have been living at any point in time throughout human history.
     
Loading...