God is omnipresent and Omniscient, is concept biblical???

[uss_bigd]

My take on the matter is posted below, let me know what you think.


Now about God being Omniscient. it is defined as "having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things."

Do you believe in free will? do you know what the purpose of the gospel is? let's work with logic before i go biblical ok?

People have free will, therefore has the ability to choose between good and evil. if there is one thing that God does not know of, its what a person will choose.

To corroborate this point, look at Jesus' instructions to Paul:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

If God already knows what people will choose then the spreading of the gospel and its purpose is one big stage play! but he doesn't. The Just God ofthe bible wants people to Follow him "volutarily" and he uses the gospel to guide them with their CHOICE/

Here is an example of something that God did not know

Jer 19:4-5 (CEV)

The people of Judah stopped worshiping me and made this valley into a place of worship for Baal and other gods that have never helped them or their ancestors or their kings. And they have committed murder here, burning their young, innocent children as sacrifices to Baal. I have never even thought of telling you to do that.

Jer 19:5 (NIV)

They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.




Now about God being omnipresent tht is defined as "present everywhere at the same time: the omnipresent God'

Who will be firm with me that God is in prostitution dens? or in casinos? in the las vegas strip? I will tell you who is in those places, see this:

James 3:14-16

But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.

Where there is envy, slefisness, envy, and strife there is the devil. So where is God then?


I should give you the burden of biblical proof, but look at this:

1. Matthew 5:16
   Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
2. Matthew 5:45
   That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
3. Matthew 5:48
   Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
4. Matthew 6:1
   Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
5. Matthew 6:9
   After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Basic reading comprehension will tell us that The Father is in heaven. do you want to know which is every where?

Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Being biblical hardly matters. People believe what makes them feel warm and fuzzy.

 

[uss_bigd]

Being biblical hardly matters. People believe what makes them feel warm and fuzzy.

yeah, I've heard that before!

 

[Mister Emu]

Omniscience and free will do not contradict... if God did not know the decisions people would make there could be no prophecy, but there was/is.

Also, read Psalm 139:7 you cannot run from the presence of God, for He is everywhere... Also Jeremiah 23:24 says God fills the heaven and earth...

 

[uss_bigd]

Omniscience and free will do not contradict... if God did not know the decisions people would make there could be no prophecy, but there was/is.

He knew there will be alot of evil. that is why there is prophecy. I was referring to the individual person.

God cannot know if a particular person will choose to do evil or good in his heart until he decides.

look at these:

Jeremiah 7:31 (King James Version)


And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

and

Jeremiah 19:5

They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

This people at tophet went out to burn their children in the fire, this never even came to God's heart or mind. he didn't know. God wouldn't know if some people will try to do the same again.

Also, read Psalm 139:7 you cannot run from the presence of God, for He is everywhere... Also Jeremiah 23:24 says God fills the heaven and earth...

Psalm 139:7

7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

David was referring to God's spirit, not God himself. God's spirit are sent out to the earth and to people you know? here are the proofs that the spirit og God are indeed sent.

1. Revelation 5:6
   And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
2. 1 Samuel 19:20
   And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.
3. Isaiah 48:16
   Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Notice that God's spirit is a seperate entity in this verse.

1. Isaiah 61:1
   The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2. John 3:34
   For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

I am woring in jer 23:24... please stand by... thanks!

 

[Mister Emu]

He knew there will be alot of evil. that is why there is prophecy. I was referring to the individual person.

I am referring to the individual person too... Psalm 22:18 prophecies the soldiers rending Jesus's garments and casting lots for his vesture. That is pretty specific and God would have to know that those people would choose to do that before they actually did it...

David was referring to God's spirit, not God himself.

What about the part "Wither shall I flee from thy presence. Also it continues with verse 8 "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."

 

[uss_bigd]

Also Jeremiah 23:24 says God fills the heaven and earth...

This verse does not mean God is all over the earth. its more like you filling a glass of water with water. but you are not in the glass. see my point? the question is what does God fill the earth? i will look up a biblical answer for you sir.

Now, i will give you one other place where God does not dwell.

Acts 17:24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Acts 7:48
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,


and can the earth contain God?

Kings 8:27
27"But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold,heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you; how much less this house that I have built!

a corroborating verse for kings 8:27 is this

Isaiah 66:1
Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

 

[uss_bigd]

I am referring to the individual person too... Psalm 22:18 prophecies the soldiers rending Jesus's garments and casting lots for his vesture. That is pretty specific and God would have to know that those people would choose to do that before they actually did it...


What about the part "Wither shall I flee from thy presence. Also it continues with verse 8 "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."

ok, I hope we are good with the 'God is everywhere part" already...

Now, this about the God knows everything part I will deal with the new verses you gave me in a moment. but if i may ask what is not sufficient in the verses below to prove my point?


Jeremiah 7:31 (King James Version)


And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

and

Jeremiah 19:5

They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

:angel2:

 

[uss_bigd]

What about the part "Wither shall I flee from thy presence. Also it continues with verse 8 "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."

Again, the Spirit of God and God himself are seperate entities. David was referring to God's spirit beng with him all the time. besides, David is not everywhere right?

I am referring to the individual person too... Psalm 22:18 prophecies the soldiers rending Jesus's garments and casting lots for his vesture. That is pretty specific and God would have to know that those people would choose to do that before they actually did it...

Psalms are songs sir, not prophecies....

 

[Mister Emu]

This verse does not mean God is all over the earth. its more like you filling a glass of water with water. but you are not in the glass. see my point?

I don't see it that way at all, I don't think the earth is a enclosed space with a barrier preventing God from mixing with the enclosing material... but then again I see God as a spirit, not a physical being, I don't think there are some kind of God particles everywhere...

the question is what does God fill the earth?

That question doesn't even make sense.

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Dwelling in, and being present in are two different things... I can tell you for sure I feel the presence of God in Church...

and can the earth contain God?

Of course not, I never said, nor implied such a thing...

if i may ask what is not sufficient in the verses below to prove my point?

They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

Now, I admit, I don't know the tradition of scholastic interpretation of much of the Bible, but I read it like this: They built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons as offering to Baal, which I did not command, nor did I speak it, nor did I think of it. Not that He didn't know what was going on.

 

[uss_bigd]

Now, I admit, I don't know the tradition of scholastic interpretation of much of the Bible, but I read it like this: They built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons as offering to Baal, which I did not command, nor did I speak it, nor did I think of it. Not that He didn't know what was going on.

He knew what was going on when it happened, but it did not come to his mind that it will happen.

 

[Mister Emu]

David was referring to God's spirit beng with him all the time.

I disagree, David was speaking to God, to the LORD when He said, whither shall I feel from thy presence, not a seperate spirit of God.

David is not everywhere right?

I never said that. But where ever David might go, God was/is present.

Psalms are songs sir, not prophecies....

I believe that one was a prophecy...

But even conceding you do not, John 6:64 states that Jesus knew from the beginning who would and would not believe Him and who would betray Him...

 

[Mister Emu]

He knew what was going on when it happened, but it did not come to his mind that it will happen

No, more as "the thought never crossed my mind". Right before the contentious phrase God says, "Which I did not command, nor did I speak it", followed by, "neither did it come into my mind". I think the final part is related to the previous two. I did not command it, nor I did not speak it, neither did I think of it.

 

[uss_bigd]

I disagree, David was speaking to God, to the LORD when He said, whither shall I feel from thy presence, not a seperate spirit of God.

So, you do not believe that God and God spirit are seperate beings?

I never said that. But where ever David might go, God was/is present.

Because the spirit goes where he goes. not because the spirit is aready at the place where David will go.

I believe that one was a prophecy...

Psalms is another word of songs

But even conceding you do not, John 6:64 states that Jesus knew from the beginning who would and would not believe Him and who would betray Him...

He was referring to the 12 apostles ony not every one, Judas iscariot to be specific.

Replies in pink sir, thanks!

 

[Mister Emu]

So, you do not believe that God and God spirit are seperate beings?

Not as in the Father and the Holy Spirit, but maybe there are spirits of God that are different...
But that isn't the point, in Pslam 139 David uses the words "O LORD" and "O God" throughtout, making it clear who he was referring to in the psalm. YHWH.

He was referring to the 12 apostles ony not every one, Judas iscariot to be specific.

I understand He was referring to Judas Iscariot as the betrayer, but the other part, the people who do not believe in Him was the disciples who left because of the earlier teaching(that we must eat Jesus's body). Either way Jesus knew it from the beginning. He knew they would not believe, and that Judas would betray Him before they actually did, could even decide to do it.

Because the spirit goes where he goes. not because the spirit is aready at the place where David will go.

I disagree.

 

[gnostic]

The god being omnipresent and omniscient is debunked, when he ask questions, like:-

The Lord God called out to the man and said to him, "Where are you?"

Then He asked, "Who told you that you were naked? Did you eat of the tree from which I had forbidden you to eat?"

The Lord said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?"

If God was ever-present and all-knowing, he would be there and should not have to ask questions about what's going on.

 

[uss_bigd]

Not as in the Father and the Holy Spirit, but maybe there are spirits of God that are different...
But that isn't the point, in Pslam 139 David uses the words "O LORD" and "O God" throughtout, making it clear who he was referring to in the psalm. YHWH.

discussion of this topic will require a whole new thread sir.


I understand He was referring to Judas Iscariot as the betrayer, but the other part, the people who do not believe in Him was the disciples who left because of the earlier teaching(that we must eat Jesus's body). Either way Jesus knew it from the beginning. He knew they would not believe, and that Judas would betray Him before they actually did, could even decide to do it.

I disagree.

You misunderstood that passage you are referring to sir, i need to go home. i will get a computer as soon as i get home and reply ok? have a nice evening !

replies in pik sir, thanks!

 

[Mister Emu]

If God was ever-present and all-knowing, he would be there and should not have to ask questions about what's going on.

I often ask my neices and nephews questions about what they've done that I already know the answers too... It is to give them a chance to tell me on their own.

discussion of this topic will require a whole new thread sir.

Possibly, but it cannot be denied that David uses the Tetragrammaton in the Psalm.

You misunderstood that passage you are referring to sir, i need to go home. i will get a computer as soon as i get home and reply ok? have a nice evening !

I am fairly sure that I am not misunderstanding, but I look forward to your reply. Have a good night.

 

[uss_bigd]

Copied from God is Not Everywhere « Eliseo Soriano

God is Not Everywhere



The word ‘omnipresent’ is never found in the original languages used to write the word of God in the Bible. Although it is possible that later translations which were translated according to the religious inclination of the translator may have it. We are lucky to have manuscripts of the scriptures dating as far back as the 1st and 2nd century of the Christian era (See image below). The advent of the computer age made it easier to search the entire Bible in just a click of a keypad.

​

Nobody can ever (in this age) understand the whole being of God.
(Isaiah 55:8-9) “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
As the heaven is unfathomable, God’s thinking and ways are like the unfathomable heavens by earthlings.
We are not allowed by any authority in the Bible to ascribe anything to God, whether it seems like adding honor and glory to Him! Why? God does not change. He is infinitely the same from everlasting to everlasting.
(James 1:17) “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”
The teachings of the deceived Mormon’s that God is a person just like us in the beginning; and only attained exaltation is biblically false.

​

We can not add to His glory by our belief; nor diminish it by our unbelief.

(Romans 3:3-4) “For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.”

God is limited to being true and faithful, He cannot lie! Im not putting limit unto Him, His words say so. It is impossible for Him to lie!

(Titus 1:2) “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began…”
(Hebrews 6:18 ) “That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us…”

We know that God is a spirit because our teacher from heaven said so.

(John 4:24) “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
He is love because it was written.
(1 John 4:16, 8 ) “And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him…”
“…He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.”

He is a consuming fire.

(Hebrews 12:29) “For our God is a consuming fire.”

He is compassionate and ever loving.

(Psalms 103:14) “For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.”

He is good.

(Psalms 100:3-5) “Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name. For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.”

He sits in yonder heavens and Jesus, our Lord, sits at the right hand of His majesty.

(Colossians 3:1) “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.”
(Hebrews 8:1) “Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such a high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens…”

One strict prohibition of the Bible is for us to accept the word of God as it is. Nothing must be added or taken away.

(Revelation 22:18-19) “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
(Jeremiah 26:2) “Thus saith the LORD; Stand in the court of the LORD’s house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the LORD’s house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word:”
(Proverbs 30:5-6) “Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”

The Bible says that the eyes of God are everywhere.

(Proverbs 15:3) “The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.”

If God is everywhere, as other religions claim, the Bible should not have said that the eyes of the Lord are in every place. It will contradict the law of logic. Does it mean that the eyes of God, His very eyes, are everywhere? Of course, not! His eyes are in His being; but can see even beyond the material universe we know.

God is in heaven, according to the prayer taught by our Lord Jesus Christ to the disciples.

(Matthew 6:9-13) “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.”

God is not in a place where there are evil strife and envy.

(James 3:16, 15) “For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.”
“This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.”

He is not where confusion dwells.

(1 Corinthians 14:33) “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

It is an insult to God for anybody to say that He is everywhere. The disrespectful are trying to drag God to every place they want Him to be: In the casinos? The prostitution dens? In the place of demons? God forbids! This is the teaching of the misled, the blinded, and the wicked.

(Acts 17:24) “God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands…”

He even left His chosen nation, Israel, when they turned to be wicked.

(2 Chronicles 15:3) “Now for a long season Israel hath been without the true God, and without a teaching priest, and without law.”
But when they where following His statutes and judgments, God was with them, and not in any nation on earth.
(2 Kings 5:15) “And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.”

To my readers, are you one of those who are trying to discredit God by ascribing to Him false qualities that He does not ascribe to Himself? God forbids!

(Job 13:7) “Will ye speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for him?”
My God — the Almighty God — is not in a heart that deceives people like other religious leaders. Praise be unto Him, forever and ever. Amen!

 

[uss_bigd]

I understand He was referring to Judas Iscariot as the betrayer, but the other part, the people who do not believe in Him was the disciples who left because of the earlier teaching(that we must eat Jesus's body). Either way Jesus knew it from the beginning. He knew they would not believe, and that Judas would betray Him before they actually did, could even decide to do it.
I disagree.

John 6:63-64

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

The reason why the other diciples did not believe is because they thought Jesus was referring to his literal body and blood. The peole following Jesus "said how can we eat this man's flesh" and turned away. Jesus meant a spiritual body and blood as corroborated by the verse above.

Now, the meaning of this verse is that, Jesus knew from the begining who has CHOSEN not to beleive in him. But my stance is God cannot know what is in your heart BEFORE you have decided.

The key here is this:

Psalm 44:21
would not God have discovered it, since he knows the secrets of the heart?

God knows the secrets of your heart. but only AFTER you decided something in your heart. He will not know before.