God did not create the Universe

[painted wolf]

Who unquestioningly accepts the authority of science? The whole point of science is to poke, prod and question everything.

wa:do

 

[Etritonakin]

Yah, but that's what they did at the beginning of "The Blob" -and look what
happened!

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Who unquestioningly accepts the authority of science? The whole point of science is to poke, prod and question everything.

wa:do

I rather accept the authority of science on issues of cosmology, because let’s face it religion has done a pretty lousy job at it such as the belief the universe was created by magic words spoken from the tongue of their gods. Science has enlightened us with a universe of such a stragglingly massive size it is far beyond what any religion could possibly imagine.

 

[Troublemane]

Who unquestioningly accepts the authority of science? The whole point of science is to poke, prod and question everything.

wa:do

If someone simply asks if anyone really has ever seen Dark Matter, and of course the answer comes back 'no they havent' because dark matter is invisible, and then it is asked, Ok so why do we believe that it is real and why ask me to believe it is really real?

There are a dozen responses which attack the questioner, or imply he is simply not in possession of the facts, or try to persuade him to believe as they do. When in fact, nobody has ever seen dark matter, nobody has ever held dark matter in their hands, and chances are we will not have the opportunity to see the outside of our galaxy for several centuries [at least], if the human race survives that long.

So if I choose not to believe in a fictional element which so far only exists in theory, I should think it is my prerogative. If other people choose to believe in it, thats fine too. But regardless of whether you believe it is true or not, if it cannot be proven then its just fun speculation and people look just like a religious zealot when they try to convince someone something they simply believe based on what some authority figure has told them. Even when it is well intended.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

I am entirely known to myself, of course.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Who unquestioningly accepts the authority of science? The whole point of science is to poke, prod and question everything.

wa:do

Would this include ghosts, UFOs, psychic powers/abilities and related phenomena?

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

I rather accept the authority of science on issues of cosmology, because let’s face it religion has done a pretty lousy job at it such as the belief the universe was created by magic words spoken from the tongue of their gods. Science has enlightened us with a universe of such a stragglingly massive size it is far beyond what any religion could possibly imagine.

Yet you find the idea that the entire universe spawned from a point from some potentia sub reality that preceded real time and then promptly expanded into existence for no particular reason other than it just felt like it (quantum fluctuations of enormous scale)....far easier to accept?

Despite the fact that this explanation is unlike anything in normal human experience?

To someone like me it seems that if one sees the universe (it's organisation and potential for entropy) as information, then what happened is that the universe suddenly unzipped itself from a very low order state into a much higher one...
This is where I have my suspicions

 

[Meow Mix]

If someone simply asks if anyone really has ever seen Dark Matter, and of course the answer comes back 'no they havent' because dark matter is invisible, and then it is asked, Ok so why do we believe that it is real and why ask me to believe it is really real?

There are a dozen responses which attack the questioner, or imply he is simply not in possession of the facts, or try to persuade him to believe as they do. When in fact, nobody has ever seen dark matter, nobody has ever held dark matter in their hands, and chances are we will not have the opportunity to see the outside of our galaxy for several centuries [at least], if the human race survives that long.

So if I choose not to believe in a fictional element which so far only exists in theory, I should think it is my prerogative. If other people choose to believe in it, thats fine too. But regardless of whether you believe it is true or not, if it cannot be proven then its just fun speculation and people look just like a religious zealot when they try to convince someone something they simply believe based on what some authority figure has told them. Even when it is well intended.

Nobody's ever touched a quark, seen one directly, held it in their hands, etc. either... hmm, at that rate, same with nearly all subatomic particles. Even the structure of the atom itself is still just a working theory. By your criteria, do you reject atomic science and quantum chromodynamics (and Q. electrodynamics) -- nearly all of it? I'd guess not, so maybe it's time to re-evaluate your opinion on this matter.

 

[painted wolf]

Would this include ghosts, UFOs, psychic powers/abilities and related phenomena?

yup... I've seen ghosts and so on... however I don't accept them as full reality until they can be tested and poked, prodded and measured. And even then I'll poke, prod and question the methods until I'm satisfied... when I'm satisfied I'll provisionally accept the findings and wait until more information is found.

I don't even trust my own experiences 100%...

wa:do

 

[Meow Mix]

I don't even trust my own experiences 100%...

wa:do

That's what it takes to be a good skeptic IMHO.

I've had a few episodes of waking hallucinations that seemed very real to me, but I had enough sense not to believe them just because I perceived them and later discovered the best explanation for them (hypnogagia).

 

[connerb]

science has given us things like computers, but computers took years of work by many brilliant minds to design and create. Yet the human mind is a million times more intricate than a computer and science says the mind just came into being by accident or evolved from some odd collection of cells. I like to think the mind was also designed and built by a greater mind. But those who don't believe in God want to think they are the greatest thing in the universe.

 

[Reptillian]

Nobody's ever touched a quark, seen one directly, held it in their hands, etc. either... hmm, at that rate, same with nearly all subatomic particles. Even the structure of the atom itself is still just a working theory. By your criteria, do you reject atomic science and quantum chromodynamics (and Q. electrodynamics) -- nearly all of it? I'd guess not, so maybe it's time to re-evaluate your opinion on this matter.

I don't know about Troublemane, but I certainly take those things with a grain of salt.

 

[painted wolf]

science has given us things like computers, but computers took years of work by many brilliant minds to design and create. Yet the human mind is a million times more intricate than a computer and science says the mind just came into being by accident or evolved from some odd collection of cells. I like to think the mind was also designed and built by a greater mind. But those who don't believe in God want to think they are the greatest thing in the universe.

I believe in God... but following your logic... who built God?

If our minds had to built by a greater mind, who built the greater mind?

wa:do

 

[Skeptisch]

But those who don't believe in God want to think they are the greatest thing in the universe.

How so?

The way we think is greatly influenced by how our brains are wired. This allows some of us to believe that we can earn instant access to paradise and 72 virgins if only we blow ourselves to bits. It also allows others to believe in miracles and that praying will suspend the laws of nature.

These same laws of nature are all many scientists need and work with including Hawking and Mlodinow. These guys believe that the laws of nature (physics) can not be changed or suspended. They believe that science and the laws of nature will eventually explain most things and what can’t be explained by science will not be explained satisfactorily by anything.

The central tenet of “The Grand Design” is “Model Dependent Realism”. It attempts to explain how a universe can create itself.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Man, that guy is named well - trouble.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

yup... I've seen ghosts and so on... however I don't accept them as full reality until they can be tested and poked, prodded and measured. And even then I'll poke, prod and question the methods until I'm satisfied... when I'm satisfied I'll provisionally accept the findings and wait until more information is found.

I don't even trust my own experiences 100%...

wa:do

Maybe we just need more cooperative ghosts...

 

[Autodidact]

science has given us things like computers, but computers took years of work by many brilliant minds to design and create. Yet the human mind is a million times more intricate than a computer and science says the mind just came into being by accident or evolved from some odd collection of cells. I like to think the mind was also designed and built by a greater mind. But those who don't believe in God want to think they are the greatest thing in the universe.

Actually, I don't base my beliefs on what I want to think, but on what appears most likely to be true.

 

[truseeker]

post 474 says what can't be explained by science will not be explained by anything. Maybe the reason it can't be explained by science is because God can't be explained by science.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

post 474 says what can't be explained by science will not be explained by anything. Maybe the reason it can't be explained by science is because God can't be explained by science.

post 474 is crap...

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Actually, I don't base my beliefs on what I want to think, but on what appears most likely to be true.

A common mistake..