Gnosticism and Taoism

[Buttons*]

Is there already a thread like this? oh well, the mods can delete it...

Okay the question: So there has been some comparisons from Gnosticism to Buddhism, but what about Taoism? Gnostics is a lot like the western religions easternized. Basically the "mystic" side of most religions.

There are TONS of comparisons to balance, the One, and inner knowing.... and.... stuff that i cant remember.... but what do you think?

random question: does being a mystic make you a gnostic... and vice versa?

 

[Buttons*]

can you have gnostic beliefs with taoist philosophy? (other random questions as they come to me...)

 

[ChrisP]

Aaaahhh Ash... we suffer from the same problem. We post and it makes sense to US, but it looks like randomness to anyone else

 

[Buttons*]

Aaaahhh Ash... we suffer from the same problem. We post and it makes sense to US, but it looks like randomness to anyone else

well, thank you for your enlightening statements!

Are you saying i need to reword things? Or do you have an opinion? Or my questions are crap? what?

 

[Halcyon]

Is Gnosticism like Taoism?

Not at all! Everyone knows that Taoism is just another name for SATANISM!!!!

We've all heard the stories of how Taoists eat the brains of babies (cooked rare, with a side of green salad) as part of their evil pagan rituals. This is common knowledge!

And how could you forget the great Taoist crusade? When millions of Taoists descended on the innocent western world, killing billions of innocent men, women, children and oldies - then using their remains to invent the first Tikka Masala.
Plus i've heard a rumour that the founder of Taoism was the great nephew of Satan, and frequently went on badger hunts.

How could you compare Gnosticism, the one true most awesomeist and righteousist path to God, with Taoism, the religion of evilness.

Buttons* (if that is your real name :sarcastic ) you are officially discombobulated from all Gnostic organisations.
Please return your red hat with the bobbles, and your officially sanctioned "Guide to Gnosticity".

 

[ChrisP]

Is Gnosticism like Taoism?

Not at all! Everyone knows that Taoism is just another name for SATANISM!!!!

We've all heard the stories of how Taoists eat the brains of babies (cooked rare, with a side of green salad) as part of their evil pagan rituals. This is common knowledge!

And how could you forget the great Taoist crusade? When millions of Taoists descended on the innocent western world, killing billions of innocent men, women, children and oldies - then using their remains to invent the first Tikka Masala.
Plus i've heard a rumour that the founder of Taoism was the great nephew of Satan, and frequently went on badger hunts.

How could you compare Gnosticism, the one true most awesomeist and righteousist path to God, with Taoism, the religion of evilness.

Buttons* (if that is your real name :sarcastic ) you are officially discombobulated from all Gnostic organisations.
Please return your red hat with the bobbles, and your officially sanctioned "Guide to Gnosticity".

Though well meaning Halcyon your facts as always are a little off

We take our baby brains in a CAESAR salad, and it was Butter Chicken not Tikka Masala... small things I know, but after all, food IS the centre of the Taoist traditions and practises.

"Emptying the heart of desires,
Filling the belly with food,
Weakening the ambitions,
Toughening the bones. "

 

[michel]

well, thank you for your enlightening statements!

Are you saying i need to reword things? Or do you have an opinion? Or my questions are crap? what?

Please Ashley, it is nothing to do with your questions; they are very valid.

I find myself finding connections between alsorts. My trouble is that I am not very knowledgeable on either 'religions' you have quoted.

I seem to be hopping about between Christianity and gnosticism, or between Christianity and Taoism (what I do know of them)..................

I think this is the same sort of 'confusion syndrome' that occurs after years and years of psychotherapy. There comes a time when every patient I have spoken to approaches a stage of total overload because there are so many labels. I am a bit that way (Theologically) myself, at the moment. I am a mystic something, but what ? I am not sure...........

 

[mingmty]

Other than the myth of the beginning of the universe I know close to nothing about gnosticism, but as far as my knowledge goes both are highly incompatible for Yaldaboath is supposed to be a greedy semi-god that created the world we live on, explaining evil this way. But for Taoists "evil" is not inferior to "goodness" but a complementary part of it, in the gnostic myth goodness was corrupted into evilness so its implied to be superior (or original). Which I personally find romantic but highly disagree.

 

[Smoke]

Aaaahhh Ash... we suffer from the same problem. We post and it makes sense to US, but it looks like randomness to anyone else

I think it's an interesting topic -- that's why I'm looking at the thread -- but while I know a little about historical Gnostic sects like the Marcionites, the Manichees, and the Cathars, I know next to nothing about modern Gnosticism, and I'm not entirely sure what people on RF mean when they say they're Gnostic. I imagine there are others in the same boat.

Maybe an introductory thread, where the Gnostics here tell a little about their faith, would help.

 

[ChrisP]

Please Ashley, it is nothing to do with your questions; they are very valid.

My cheek still smarts from the e-Slap are they legal?

Being in between paths is not bad Michel, it is the opposite. All paths seek one thing and one thing alone. Our source, our origins. Abrahamics say Yahweh is our origin, Bhuddists say our origin is nothing, Atheist prefer to explain it through physical sciences. Mystics, Taoists and to some extent(althought not in the same words) Gnostics choose to explain it thusly:

TAO can be talked about,
but not the Eternal Tao.
Names can be named,
but not the Eternal Name.

As the origin of heaven-and-earth, ​

it is nameless:

As "the Mother" of all things, ​

it is nameable.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So, as ever hidden, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]we should look at its inner essence: [/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

As always manifest, ​

[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]we should look at its outer aspects. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]These two flow from the same source, [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]though differently named; [/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

And both are called mysteries. ​

[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Mystery of mysteries is the Door of all essence. [/FONT]

This is why people who truly know what it is they seek cannot put it in words. There are no words to describe something beyond our perceptions.

So what we seek is everywhere, we cannot find it because it is always in our perceptions and senses and so is never lost.
​

 

[Buttons*]

*smiles* thanks for that Chris

 

[ChrisP]

See I can do serious... *cough*

 

[Buttons*]

Is Gnosticism like Taoism?

Not at all! Everyone knows that Taoism is just another name for SATANISM!!!!

We've all heard the stories of how Taoists eat the brains of babies (cooked rare, with a side of green salad) as part of their evil pagan rituals. This is common knowledge!

And how could you forget the great Taoist crusade? When millions of Taoists descended on the innocent western world, killing billions of innocent men, women, children and oldies - then using their remains to invent the first Tikka Masala.
Plus i've heard a rumour that the founder of Taoism was the great nephew of Satan, and frequently went on badger hunts.

How could you compare Gnosticism, the one true most awesomeist and righteousist path to God, with Taoism, the religion of evilness.

Buttons* (if that is your real name :sarcastic ) you are officially discombobulated from all Gnostic organisations.
Please return your red hat with the bobbles, and your officially sanctioned "Guide to Gnosticity".

I will NEVER give my bobbles and guide back!!! You'll have to steal them from my dead lifeless body! (dont worry, shouldnt be too long now...)

Thanks for filling me in though, i never knew that Taoism was like that!

 

[Buttons*]

See I can do serious... *cough*

*smiles*

 

[Buttons*]

*sigh* I didnt think about how confusing this thread was going to be for people who dont already know what I mean....

Its hard to explain.... I dont mean gnostic as in the mythology of it. I simply mean the "inner knowing" belief of it. No doctrine or allegorical mythology involved. JUST that inner knowing, or understanding belief... compared to Philosophical Taoism.

Openly admitting here, I dont know ANYTHING about taoism... as a religion OR as a philosophy. I'm just looking for opinions. If you dont know anything about gnosticism, it's probably best to not comment... although i love your ideas very much.

Sorry for the confusion.... I'll work on this more when i get our of hell...

 

[Halcyon]

Right, well i've given my demented answer. Now for the real one.

The Gnostic concept of God - me and Ash normally refer to it as The One - is everything. It is the source of all things manifest and imaginary.
From the The One our universe emanated, along with an infinite number of other universes and realms.
The One is in everything, everything is of the One.

To me, from what i've read of the Tao Te Ching, our concept of The One is almost identical to the Tao. Please tell me if i'm wrong.

As for the myths, well they're just people trying to get across concepts. The Demiurge for example was flawed and created a flawed world, thus matter is flawed and evil. Only the spirit is pure.
What this is telling us is that matters of the flesh are less important than matters of the spirit. And by only taking pleasure in material possessions and experiences is ultimately unfulfilling.

 

[ChrisP]

I agree with the source concept any differences that could be put forward would merely be semantics.

Taoism removes the desire of any kind which may be a little different from Gnosis. To feel is not unnatural, but to desire can be calamitous as it creates action with purpose. (purpose is bad go figure)

The idea of Gnostic myths as analogies again ties well with the Tao. Essentially the whole of the Tao te Ching is a list of analogies all trying to get across the same point(s) in a different way. Chuang Tzu is also an excellent source of Taoist analogies with more of a master talking with his student approach.

Someone needs to PM S_W cos I think he missed this thread! That man is a master.

 

[Buttons*]

why dont you do it Chrispy?

 

[Buttons*]

I agree with the source concept any differences that could be put forward would merely be semantics.

Taoism removes the desire of any kind which may be a little different from Gnosis. To feel is not unnatural, but to desire can be calamitous as it creates action with purpose. (purpose is bad go figure)

Gnostics arent supposed to desire either, it's one of the seven "powers of wrath" the soul is supposed to ascend though....*checks Mary's gospel* Yep... It's one of the first things the soul must ascend through... all allegorically of course:

"The first form is darkness,
the second, desire,
the third, ignorance,
the fourth, death wish,
the fifth, fleshly kingdom,
the sixth, foolish fleshly wisdom,
the seventh, angry person's wisdom."

...so do those steps give a purpose? Is that what you're saying the difference is? Okay, so Gnostics have to gain gnosis to understand whereas Toaists just... exist?

 

[ChrisP]

I'm saying "gnosis/tao" is all around us but we become used to it being there at a very young age (when we lose that sense of wonder) and so it just becomes part of the landscape.

Succinctly: If you saw something literally Everywhere and Everywhen you become conditioned to its presence and while not ignoring it become blind to it.

I'm not sure about steps. Taoism just tends to focus on the path as a whole which Gnostics seem to do too... maybe we should just have the forums merged