cataway
Well-Known Member
which brings us back to "shall so" come" in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."
yet you said he was born
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Getting Rid of Demons
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
yet you said he was born
cataway
Well-Known Member
as foretold by Jesus
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Jesus was also born, from the womb of Mary, so He came in like manner to Baha'u'llah, who was born from the womb of His mother.
cataway
Well-Known Member
we don't question that Baha'u'llah was born. the thing is Jesus left in spirit he would also return in spirit. .Baha'u'llah came flesh and bone and died as every man dies. did Jesus invite him to be a member in his kingdom to rule and help govern the earth ?? i would think no yet its not my call
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Jesus was flesh and bone and his body died just as every man dies. When Jesus died, His spirit ascended to heaven.
Jesus never planned to return to return and govern the earth. Before Jesus left, He said that His work was finished here and He was no longer in the world.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jesus left in spirit and returned in spirit. Baha'u'llah was the return of the spirit of Jesus who came to build the kingdom of God on earth.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
What they thought as Heaven then. It was understandable that they thought that way then. It is not now.
cataway
Well-Known Member
considering the things said by Jesus
"6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress." (Matthew 24) using those parameters, which by the way , began in the early 1900's .do show a marked difference in human affairs and earthen activities.
now in hindsight of 100+ years we can look back and understand that Jesus is now presence, meaning "HE" has returned . likely thus far his return has not done what you have expected . there are yet a few things that must happen before the full onslaught of judgement activity's take place.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, there has been a marked difference in human affairs since the beginning of the 19th century.
Returned to earth? How do you think that Jesus returned, in spirit or in body?
How is Jesus present?
I do not expect what you expect to happen.
First, I do not believe that Jesus meant the end of the world, I believe that He meant the end of an age. I believe that the prophetic age ended in 1844, and the Bab and Baha'u'llah ushered in a new age, the Age of Fulfillment of prophecy. The Age of fulfillment will last no less than 1000 years, during which time all the biblical prophecies will be fulfilled
Second, I do not believe in Judgment Day the way that you believe in it.
"In the Bahá’í interpretation, the coming of each Manifestation of God is a Day of Judgment, but the coming of the supreme Manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh is the great Day of Judgment for the world cycle in which we are living. The trumpet blast of which Christ and Muhammad and many other prophets speak is the call of the Manifestation, which is sounded for all who are in heaven and on earth—the embodied and the disembodied. The meeting with God, through His Manifestation, is, for those who desire to meet Him, the gateway to the Paradise of knowing and loving Him, and living in love with all His creatures. Those, on the other hand, who prefer their own way to God’s way, as revealed by the Manifestation, thereby consign themselves to the hell of selfishness, error and enmity."
The Day of Judgment
cataway
Well-Known Member
certainly not bodily. because he became invisible when he left he would also return in like matter . we would know of his presence because of the of the things he said would be happening.
cataway
Well-Known Member
end of the world ??
(Psalm 78:69) He made his sanctuary as enduring as the heavens, Like the earth that he has established forever.
(Psalm 104:5) He has established the earth on its foundations; It will not be moved from its place forever and ever.
(Psalm 119:90) Your faithfulness is through all generations. You have firmly established the earth, so that it continues to stand.
ECCLESIASTES 1:
4 A generation is going, and a generation is coming,
But the earth remains forever.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
The tomb was empty.
Jesus: "There are many rooms in my Father’s house. I would not tell you this if it were not true. I am going there to prepare a place for you. After I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back. Then I will take you with me, so that you can be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.” John 14: 2-4
cataway
Well-Known Member
and who was he talking to ?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is just a story men wrote, which varies from gospel to gospel. It is not actual history and that is why the stories are different.
Even if the tomb was empty that does not prove Jesus rose from the dead since there are other explanations as to why it was empty.
John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Jesus said He would come again, but Jesus did not say ‘how’ He would come so there is no reason to think this one verse is Jesus saying He will come to earth again in the same physical body He had when He walked the earth 2,000 years ago.
When Jesus said “I will come again” He was not referring to His physical body coming again. Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world: (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11).
Since Jesus said He was no more in the world and the world would see Him no more we know that when He said "and receive you unto myself" He was not talking about His physical body, but rather He was referring to His spirit. Also please note that Jesus did not ever say He would come again and ‘do’ anything on earth that would require a body, like building a Kingdom of God on earth, as most Christians believe Jesus will do.
"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not about His physical body, because there would be no way that the disciples Jesus was speaking to could receive the body of Jesus on earth since they were no longer living on earth. Where Jesus was in heaven and that is where the disciples also are, so that is where Jesus received them. That is why Jesus said that He went to prepare a place for them, a place in heaven, not on earth.
The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah who was the return of Christ that Jesus promised. So when Jesus said “I will come again” He meant that His Spirit would come again because He would send His Spirit from the Father, and we see that in the verses that follow in John 14. Jesus promised not to leave us comfortless and then He said He would send a Comforter. The Comforter refers to the person who would be the return of Christ. So when Jesus said I will come again, He meant He would send His spirit in the person of the Comforter who would do what it says in John 14:26.
John 14 KJV
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
"and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also” is referring to heaven, not earth, because Jesus was going to heaven to prepare a place in heaven, not on earth. Jesus was preparing a place in heaven so they could be with him in heaven.
John 14:3 is one of the most misunderstood verses in the New Testament so it is no wonder the Bible commentaries do not agree on what it means.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To summarize, Jesus did not say "my body will come again." The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah, and that was what Jesus promised to send. Jesus was a Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit.
John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I see the evidence of them, yes.
My evidence is a "lack" of evidence, of them being around.
cataway
Well-Known Member
are the angels holy spirits .?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, I don't think so.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Here are your words:
Moreover, what they thought as heaven then, we now know it is an empty void where no one could breathe.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
His disciples.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but no. If you really look closely at the individual stories from each gospel, you will see (unless your bias overcomes your common-sense) that these ‘differences’ are a result of different viewpoints of the same event. Different perspectives of the same event do not mean an actual difference in the events that happened.
The individual author's perspective of the circumstances surrounding the Resurrection are different, as one would expect. This is not to say that there is an actual difference in the events that happened. In fact, it is because of the variations that we can fully believe in the events that took place during the Crucifixion and the Resurrection of Jesus.
Think for a minute about four people watching the same event, maybe sports or a crime or a car accident; there are going to be four slightly different eyewitness accounts of the same event. The same thing happened when people watched the events surrounding the Resurrection of Jesus Christ unfold..
No two people are going to interpret something in the exact same way.
The accounts of the Resurrection agree on all the important points.
1. Jesus died and was buried
2. Several women left for the tomb very early in the morning (including Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James)
3. They found the stone rolled away and the tomb empty of Jesus' body.
4. An angel spoke to them.
5. The women fled from the tomb.
6. The disciples were not prepared for his death and were confused about his Resurrection, what it meant, and the words Mary spoke to them.
Comparing the Gospel Accounts of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ