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Genocide in 1st Samuel 15:2-3
- Thread starter keithnurse
- Start date
There is a huge difference between a parent punishing a child and what you are talking about. Besides, disobedience is not wrong. Disobedience is in fact one of the factors that drives humanity forward. Disobedience can, but do not have to be, be good. The context matters.
And as I have already said, morality is not about what is it is about what should be. That your deity can, according to your faith, kill us and we can´t do anything about it is irrelevant to the morality of doing so.
Authority based morality is also what is behind the excuse that someone was just following orders. We are all accountable for our actions, orders and commandments do not have much impact on right or wrong, especially if we do not even know if the person giving the orders exist (speaking from an atheist perspective here).
That someone made me does not mean I have to obey him. Can remember stories where the parents of a child had no right to have anything to do with that child. The reason was that they simply showed through their actions they where undeserving, and the interest of the child always goes first.
Anyway, I think we have started to repeat ourselves. Must find a way to break that, lol.
Maybe you could help me with a think I never understood. Assuming your deity exist now, who should I fear him? I can understand the whole worship aspect on some level, but never why fear should be needed.
I am genuinly curious, and would appriciate if you could explain it (has been on my mind for some time now why people sometimes seem to think it is good to fear their deity)
.It doesn´t matter that a human life is ending?
That is faith, not fact. Faith does not make it so.
Because without questioning and disbelief even greater agony comes. It is just to look at how it has been in the passed. Fundamentalist views has caused more suffering then I can ever put in words. So why shouldn´t we pursue this endless agony, considering the alternative?
Good to see you can't discuss anything with style and honesty. Deleting the rest of the quote that I replied with to make a empty and dishonest point.
Way to go. :slap:
Oh don't worry. It wouldn't have worked out anyways. Sinaiticism doesn't accept practicing homosexuals either. Back in the day when the babies were getting killed the homosexuals did to.
The one who give up before something he cannot beat won´t have the fun of trying of beat it
Oh, I'm sure your going to have a ball then.
Right. That takes a whole lot of things to be in place as to the Torah before that is to happen though. A lot of prophecy has to come to light before any of that occurs. Not only that but man wont be doing the killing of the sinners next. Yahshua and those who have been raised to rule and judge the world will be making the heads roll then. You might not get to see that because youll be eaten by the worms long before that occurs if your so blessed.
　
Yep. As I so stated. Major bliss!!!!!
　
I only attempt to set my standards along side of those of Elohim. They are not mine but his. I just try to follow them.
Oh hes coming. Trust me when I tell you that you WILL get to meet him. I just havent a clue as to the when part. But it is going to happen.
Again, I only try to do according to the wishes of my father. The problem you have is with him. Not me. Im just the closet thing you have to attack for something he wishes. If you just want an answer the best I can give you is by your standards and by your morals as you have so stated that what occurred was wrong. But though that is all fine and good for you and all of those like you, I cant accept it. For whatever reason Elohim commanded I must acknowledge that it is and was right.
　
Yes I have as to the understandings your allowed.
If I decide? LOL its a little more complicated than that but hey, but its all good.
　
And Im still waiting for you to get a clue. Go for it, I cant wait. LOL
　
Im not wasting my time with the wagging of tongues. Believe as you will. No concern of mine.
Torah is what I will only talk about in such issues. I am bound by it. You are free to talk about whatever. Ill just sit back and let you have at it. Further wasteful wagging of tongues.
　
Again it is not I that you have the problem with but it is Yah himself you argue with. Dont worry. Youll have your chance to ask why to Elohim before judgment is rendered Im sure.
LOL. Yep thats it. You got me. Its all my fault. You havent a thing to be blamed for. Rigggggggght!
LOL, what need of money will you or I need when the worms are eating at our flesh?
　
As you understand it. But your understanding of mine is tilted by your thoughts and feels of the flesh. Until you can accept that which is not of this world you will never understand and will still be completely imprisoned in that understanding that you are allowed only of this world. Your stuck. In your understanding you are a cell that will die and be no more. You will simply cease to exist because it was just all an accident to begin with. Why you care to continue to be the stumbling blocks of the world that try to gain some sort of consciousness is beyond me. Its almost like you all are programmed from birth to be so and are agents of the evil one to do his bidding against the light of Elohim. And yet it is of little to no gain for you to do so other than the pure satisfaction of doing it. Its simply amazing. This is your only goal in life is to be the speed bump for everyone else. What a life. I, in a way, feel sorry for you because if you dont change then I know what the outcome is going to be for you. It will be as you understand. You will cease to exist but not until you see and realize what you have lost out on. What a shame that will be. To think you had your whole life to get it right and yet you chose to throw it all away on the whims of man.
　
If that is how you understand his Torah and wishes to be then YES! He is.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
If you think I omitted something that would somehow resurrect your vile so-called morality, please feel more than free to do so. Being a moral person, I would hate mischaracterize you.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
First, you're factually mistaken. There is no prohibition against lesbianism anywhere in either testament of the Bible, and the subject is not mentioned whatsoever in the Old Testament.
Second, yeah, that's a great example of morality. Don't eat weasels, but kill gay people. Have I mentioned at all what I think of your so-called morality? I'm trying to imagine a more evil one, but finding it really hard.
Are you trying to threaten me? Or did you have a point that's relevant to the thread n some way?
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
I'm sorry, I thought you were not insane. Never mind then.
Moral in your own eyes and understanding. I see a dishonesty with purpose. I happy with mine. And you know whats so kewl about it? There ain't not one thing you can do about it either but flap your gums. :yes:
See go ahead. Make me right. Flap away.
No there isn’t. Maybe by your understanding but in mine, it is exactly the same.
Maybe to man and maybe to you in your understanding but to me as it relates to Yah and his word it is very much wrong to disobey and can cause you to lose your place in the book of life.
Maybe to your understanding but yet again, my understanding shows only the will of Yah and his wishes which to me, in my understanding, supersedes any man made understandings.
I understand and agree we will all be made to answer for our own actions, but what consequences is one of authority, as in the government, going to give to Yahshua and Elohim when the second coming occurs and heads begin to role? (Speaking from a Sinaiticist perspective here.) I doubt what one thinks and feels about morality from their own perspective is going to matter much when faced with death. Just my opinion.
No your right and many have chosen not to obey and that is why it is written that only a remnant will gain the prize. As far as the stories go? That’s here on earth in a earthly system that a child has more rights than the parents. This is my understanding as to why this system is so screwed up. It will soon all change though.
Ending this discussion would be the only way to keep that from happening because there isn’t to much more I can add to truth. It is what it is. Take it or leave it. I say it is and you say it isn’t and around and round we go sooner or later bound to end right back where we started from. LOL
I almost didn’t understand your question for the mis-wording but I think you just want to understand why when it is stated that we should fear Elohim why the fear? If that is correct then I will say that the best thing you could do would get you a real good concordance that shows you the strongs numbers so that you can somewhat see what words were used in place of the Hebrew and what the correct rendering is in the Hebrew. Now that being said, you still have to be careful because even the best concordance has mistakes. The best thing to do is to take a class in biblical Hebrew as we are having now at my Tabernacle. It is a 6 month class that teaches you to read, write and speak biblical Hebrew with understanding of the root words that the rest of the Hebrew is so derived. This way one could get a hold of some ancient text by way of the Hebrew Tanach and go to town. Read and translate for yourself instead of letting some so called rabbi or Greek scholar which has no clue in the culture and ethics of a true Hebrew Yisraelite which lived and died by the true word of Elohim.
To make a long story short……….
The word “fear” you see is actually in the Hebrew text as “Yahray” which also means to reverence and stand in awe of. Have you ever been somewhere like a large mountain with beautiful scenery where you could stand right next to a cliff like just fell off for thousands of feet with all the grandeur and beauty before you and all you could do is just stand there in awe? That it was so large and high up and so massive in size which made you feel so small there might be a little fear involved for the magnificence of it all? This is what is meant. One small little Hebrew word with a great big meaning behind it.
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Hope I was of some assistance to your knowledge of truth.
No, no, no, no. Remember as brother Shaul stated ..
Rom 2:14 For whenever Nations, who have no Torah, do naturally what the Torah requires, then these, even though they don't have Torah, for themselves are Torah!
Rom 2:15 For their lives show that the conduct the Torah dictates is written in their hearts. Their consciences also bear witness to this, for their conflicting thoughts sometimes accuse them and sometimes defend them.
The term beast I used was meant in a very broad sense of the word. We are as the beast of the field if we do not follow after the will of Yah. Actually we are worse because we do not do as we were created to do. The animals do better than we do at times because who could ever say that the monkey didnt do as monkeys do. He does as he is created. Man was created for a purpose and duty. That was to obey Elohim. If we do by nature that which is against Torah then we are literally worse than a beast for a beast will be as it is created, a beast. Do you follow?
Of course it does. Its a terrible and sad thing to see anyone suffer or die but thats where it ends. There are reasons behind the madness. What was the reason behind the deaths? It is written as much as was known about it and pretty much we see that it was thus commanded unto the son of Yisrael by Elohim to do the act. That is all I require to know that it was enough for Elohim to command such it is enough for me to know that it was right.
In my understanding and faith it does. All you can do is either sit back and wait to see if it does come true or start working towards a true path of understanding for the fulfillment of a just reward.
I see your point and as to my understanding I agree that this so called christianity, among other sects of understanding, have taken it way beyond the bounds of what really is to be. Even judaism as it is now is but a speck of what was intended at Mt. Sinai. All have added to and taken away so much that nothing almost remains of that true intent. Bits and pieces are left for the few of us that work so diligently to piece back together to show that true light which once wielded its glorious wisdom and knowledge amongst those who loved Yah with all of their minds and all of themselves.
I have rather enjoyed having this discussion with you thus far and hope that if your intentions are as honorable as they seem that you take a look at the information on the website at my sig. There is a wealth of information there as well as the links attached there. Warning though, you will need to be diligent with plenty of time to take in all that is there. Read and listen to all with an open mind and we encourage you to do your own research to search out for yourself what is being taught. Remember, it isnt church. Enjoy and get back to me. I will be more than happy to answer your questions as to the best of my ability as long as it is as it has been thus far.
No, As to my understanding your correct as far as two women being together sexualy but not by their own wishes without the consent of their head. There has to be a head. The head is the father,husband or next male family/tribe member in line. There has to be a head that allows such to occur. A woman from birth is never outside of the authority of a head. If the head has multiple wives and/or concubinds then it is up to him alone whether to allow such and whether he has to be present or involved even. all decisions are up to the head.
I have a feeling that you somehow fall outside of this and it. Like I said, it just wouldn't work out if you so continued in such actions.
This is of course is outside of the OP as most of your reply's have been when pertaining to how you think and feel about me or my El or my understanding.
That's cool
Me threaten? No. Warn maybe but as I see it falls on deaf ears.
This has become down right silly with your constant baggering of me, my El, my beliefs and so on and so on. In the future missy, I will not respond to your silly whims if they fall outside the OP. Have a wonderful life.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
I want to thank gwk for providing an excellent demonstration of the consequences of a truly consistent Biblical morality:
magical thinking, sexism, bizarre purity taboos, and an acceptance of unjustifiable violence.
magical thinking, sexism, bizarre purity taboos, and an acceptance of unjustifiable violence.
It is not a matter of understanding, it is a matter of perspective on the roll of the parent. To me that is of a guardian and protector, and as such they cannot do anything, because they would not be doing their job properly. This is partly why the interest of abused children are more important then the interest of their abusing parents. The other part of this reason is that even a parent is under morality.
If that is what you believe, so be it. I do not share your faith, even though I respect your right to have it. Never the less, it would have been much better if more people had disobeyed Hitler. Fact is we could need more people to disobey and refuse to participate in crimes and atrocities. We have also evolved a lot faster and now that we challenge ideas rather then having blind faith.
I have yet to see a reason for that. Also note that this is a central aspect of my philosophy. There is a reason for everything.
And you got a point. Fear is a very strong emotion, I know that very well myself, and I have no idea how I actually would react in a life or death situation. But I prefer to try and believe in myself. Beyond that, fear is not a good basis for faith.
You cannot say that without knowing the stories. It is not a matter of just any stories, it is true stories of extreme abuse. Only someone with a very cold heart can say the parents matter more then the children in these cases. Fortunatly they are rare.
Not saying that we should end it, maybe find a way to change the direction where we do not say the same things again and again
. Besides, you So basically it is not a matter of actual fear as much as reverence?
And to explain why I asked the question...
For me the word fear means fear. So when someone tells me about "God fearing men" or whatever, I see people scared of their deity. But if their deity is all that good, loving and all, why would they fear him? Why be scared, if you are of the "right faith" (according to your own beliefs, that is)? I am saying this not to question your faith or beliefs, but to express why I asked the question. I take words quite literally, fear means... fear to me.