Genesis, Time, Nihilism, and Logos

[Treasure Hunter]

For the child, it’s just instinct. It doesn’t need to be consciously meaningful. I just don’t know that the answer is forced unification rather than advanced individuation. Do we appreciate people for being the same or for being different?

We all want to move away from pain and suffering and toward meaning and fulfillment. I’m not trying to enforce that: I’m assuming it as a given. This process I’m describing IS the individuation process. We seem to be talking past each other at this point.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

If the master wanted the money to be given to exchangers, he could have done it himself before departing on his journey.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

then we can escape from this story of work, responsibility, and punishment by a tyrannical ruler

Well, to be sure, even if you did away with the modern-day trappings that necessitate "work" and "responsibility" as they exist now, you would necessarily have to exchange those for the "work" and "responsibility" that comes with trying to mete out survival at the hands of mother nature. I am sure the concept of fending for oneself (which necessarily comes with a load of responsibility and work) was introduced much sooner to the children of our earliest ancestors.

 

[John D. Brey]

I do not like parables and similes. Many a times they confuse, do not fit exactly and lead astray. I like straight talk. Sure, they are interesting.

See the silliness here in this simile:
"Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury."
And what if he would have suffered a loss and lost the one talent. Then the master would have blamed the servant for doing something that he had not said. How could the servant take liberties with money which was not his own?

. . . Your initial statement appears to situate you as the person given one talent in the parable, in that you don't appear to like risk, or complications that require risk, and freethinking (as in, for instance, the interpretation of a parable).

One element in the parable could be the fact that there's really no place in our reality where there is no risk. Someone might have spied the one burying the talent and stole it so that he couldn't even return the one talent given to his care. Better to take the risks commensurate with life. And better yet to get good at taking risks since we live in a risk filled reality.



John

 

[Aupmanyav]

You give me your money. Should I take risk with that? It is what we term as "Amanat". Something given in trust that we have to safe-guard. I cannot take chances with that. Had it been my money, or if I had specific instructions to trade with it, I could have done whatever I wanted. That is the reason, the third person buried it in ground, perhaps at a place where he thought it was the safest. What he did should have been appreciated. But the master was greedy. He wanted more money than he had given to the servants. Had they suffered loss, perhaps he would have killed them.

 

[John D. Brey]

You give me your money. Should I take risk with that? It is what we term as "Amanat". Something given in trust that we have to safe-guard. I cannot take chances with that. Had it been my money, or if I had specific instructions to trade with it, I could have done whatever I wanted. That is the reason, the third person buried it in ground, perhaps at a place where he thought it was the safest. What he did should have been appreciated. But the master was greedy. He wanted more money than he had given to the servants. Had they suffered loss, perhaps he would have killed them.

. . . Would I not be taking a risk giving you money in the first place? Would I not be taking a risk leaving my residence in the morning in order to give you the money?

The Father risked everything by placing everything under the son. And the son gambled, or traded, and lost, everything, by risking it all for a world without want, tears, sickness, or death. . . I've risked much on the gamble that Jesus' gambit is being accounted for, capitalized, accredited, and will soon be realized.

He never dies whose heart is alive with love:/ Our persistence is recorded in the register of the Cosmos.

Hafez, Collected Lyrics 34.​

John

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, John, I am ready for all risks, but will not take any if you entrust something to me. Then, I would be very cautious.
The concept of 'Amanat':

"Amanat is a trust that you leave with someone to be returned in full at a given time and place. Amanat is something that belongs to another person, that he or she gives to you for safe keeping and to abide under the rules of the pact (covenant) he or she made with you.

Khianat is taking something out of what was given to us for safekeeping and betraying the trust of another.

Khianat is detested by Allah SWT

On the day o judgment each promise/pact breaker will have a flag, which will announce what promise or pact he or she violated. This will be the announcement of their violations of their promises, personal or national, publicly decrying their actions for all to see."
THE CONCEPT OF AMANAT AND KHIANAT: 8:56-58

 

[Treasure Hunter]

When asked to reveal the greatest commandment, Jesus replied:

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

This thread is describing what that looks like in practice. To love someone requires that we know them. While there was overlap in childhood, Eve and her world are not God. They are merely a memory and a longing for God.

In this sense, Eve and her counterfeit Garden of Eden are anti-Christ. They imitate and deceive, but loving an imitation of God gets us nowhere. To actually embody the greatest commandment means we have to disassociate with Eve and become more male, or more of Adam. We have to eat the forbidden fruit and see the truth, even if it means that Eve will fall into despair and death when the truth of her world is revealed.

In this way, to love God with all of your heart and soul will set up a masculine-feminine dynamic. The feminine of Eve represents short term reassurance and comfort. It is the feminine of the mother and child relationship. The feminine that represents following the greatest commandment is the feminine of the bride. Christ represents the groom and Jesus associates the Kingdom to the “Bridegroom”. In Matthew 19:5-6, Jesus is not simply describing a societal norm, he is explaining what I am explaining in this thread.

 

[PearlSeeker]

“The Word” is translated from “Logos”. However, it is incorrect to assume a perfect translation. The Logos is the Messianic Male, which can be thought of as an elevated level of consciousness.

Logos/Word means the same as "seed" in parables. It's pure potential. When Word becomes spoken/expressed/applied it becomes life/light - the active/growth principle.

"Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit."
​

If you are interested you can read my meditation on John's Prologue in this thread:
Meditation on Prologue (John 1)

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Logos/Word means the same as "seed" in parables. It's pure potential. When Word becomes spoken/expressed/applied it becomes life/light - the active/growth principle.

"Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit."
​

If you are interested you can read my meditation on John's Prologue in this thread:
Meditation on Prologue (John 1)

Yes, that is an aspect of Logos that you are describing, but it’s more important to be aware of the aspect of Logos that categorizes, differentiates, judges, and discerns. That is what we use to determine what is true, what serves us, what to follow, etc.

In order to access that aspect of Logos in its purest form, free from sin to use Christian language, we have to blind ourselves to words, thoughts, and rationality more generally.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Yes, that is an aspect of Logos that you are describing, but it’s more important to be aware of the aspect of Logos that categorizes, differentiates, judges, and discerns. That is what we use to determine what is true, what serves us, what to follow, etc.

In order to access that aspect of Logos in its purest form, free from sin to use Christian language, we have to blind ourselves to words, thoughts, and rationality more generally.

Yes, there is light in Logos because it's the original idea of everything. Why do you think we have to become blind to rationality to access it? Some teachers thought that our reason takes part in Logos.

 

[firedragon]

Yes, there is light in Logos because it's the original idea of everything. Why do you think we have to become blind to rationality to access it? Some teachers thought that our reason takes part in Logos.

Why do you think that the Synoptic Gospels did not share this theological significance of the "logos"?

 

[PearlSeeker]

Why do you think that the Synoptic Gospels did not share this theological significance of the "logos"?

It can be seen also there but veiled in parables. As I said: Logos = seed. Synoptic Gospels were not so theological yet.

 

[firedragon]

It can be seen also there but veiled in parables. As I said: Logos = seed.

I apologise if I missed it. But how is Logos, seed? seed is Sperma isn't it?

 

[PearlSeeker]

I apologise if I missed it. But how is Logos, seed? seed is Sperma isn't it?

Parables mention seed of a plant. Of course it's not meant literally. Seed holds potential for growth and life of a plant. A thought (a word in silence) is potential for a spoken/revealed word and act. Logos is pure potential of everything and the principal pattern.

"All things came into being through Him[/Her], and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

"In Him was life..."

"Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit."

 

[firedragon]

Parables mention seed of a plant. Of course it's not meant literally. Seed holds potential for growth and life of a plant. A thought (a word in silence) is potential for a spoken/revealed word and act. Logos is pure potential of everything and the principal pattern.

"All things came into being through Him[/Her], and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

"In Him was life..."

"Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit."

But that's all in John only, the last Gospel to be written. Not in any of the synoptics. Thus the question really is, would you impose a latter concept to earlier text when its not there.

 

[PearlSeeker]

But that's all in John only, the last Gospel to be written. Not in any of the synoptics. Thus the question really is, would you impose a latter concept to earlier text when its not there.

Yes, I thought you already know the parables in synoptics.

Parable of the Sower and Soils

“Listen to this! Behold, the sower went out to sow; as he was sowing, some seed fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate it up. “Other seed fell on the rocky ground where it did not have much soil; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of soil. “And after the sun had risen, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. “Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. “Other seeds fell into the good soil, and as they grew up and increased, they yielded a crop and produced thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.” And He was saying, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

Parable of the Seed

And He was saying, “The kingdom of God is like a man who casts seed upon the soil; and he goes to bed at night and gets up by day, and the seed sprouts and grows—how, he himself does not know. “The soil produces crops by itself; first the blade, then the head, then the mature grain in the head. “But when the crop permits, he immediately puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come.”

Parable of the Mustard Seed

And He said, “How shall we picture the kingdom of God, or by what parable shall we present it? “It is like a mustard seed, which, when sown upon the soil, though it is smaller than all the seeds that are upon the soil, yet when it is sown, it grows up and becomes larger than all the garden plants and forms large branches; so that the birds of the air can nest under its shade."

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit."

Low on Biology. The seed does not die. It becomes a shoot and then a tree. But when did theists cared about Biology?

Parable of the Sower and Soils: Everyone knows that. But it does not mean that what the speaker is saying is true.
Parable of the Seed: Again, it does not mean that what the speaker is saying is true.
Parable of the Mustard Seed: Yet again. Stories but nothing to prove.
What value do these parables have if you do not give evidence for what you are saying?

 

[PearlSeeker]

Low on Biology. The seed does not die. It becomes a shoot and then a tree. But when did theists cared about Biology?

Parable of the Sower and Soils: Everyone knows that. But it does not mean that what the speaker is saying is true.
Parable of the Seed: Again, it does not mean that what the speaker is saying is true.
Parable of the Mustard Seed: Yet again. Stories but nothing to prove.
What value do these parables have if you do not give evidence for what you are saying?

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Yes, there is light in Logos because it's the original idea of everything. Why do you think we have to become blind to rationality to access it?

Because the enemy has access to our thoughts and reasoning, and he wants us bound to this world rather than seeking the Kingdom of Heaven which is not of this world.

Some teachers thought that our reason takes part in Logos.

There is the Word, which is an approximation or a counterfeit of the Logos. The Word builds our world using words and rationality. We all participate in that. It is the shared world and known world.

The reality of the Kingdom is concealed. We have to choose it, struggling through the resistance that wants to keep us in bounds. The idea that we can access the real Logos through reason is one of the deceptions that the enemy uses to keep us in line. Those who have “ears to hear” are able to blind themselves from the Word in their head and access their intuition.