Genesis 3:15, the Lady who crushed the serpent's head

[Estro Felino]

Genesis 3:15
The text in Greek is:

καὶ ἔχθραν θήσω ἀνὰ μέσον σοῦ καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῆς γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματός σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς· αὐτός σου τηρήσει κεφαλήν, καὶ σὺ τηρήσεις αὐτοῦ πτέρναν.

that is: I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your descendance and her descendance. Her descendance (her offspring) will watch against your head and you will watch against her offspring's heel.

The Greek term used here implies that another woman, that is, the woman who descended from Eve will threaten to harm the serpent's head (probably with her own foot).

How do you interpret this verse?

 

[Brian2]

The text in Greek is:

καὶ ἔχθραν θήσω ἀνὰ μέσον σοῦ καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῆς γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματός σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς· αὐτός σου τηρήσει κεφαλήν, καὶ σὺ τηρήσεις αὐτοῦ πτέρναν.

that is: I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your descendance and her descendance. Her descendance (her offspring) will watch against your head and you will watch against her offspring's heel.

The Greek term used here implies that another woman, that is, the woman who descended from Eve will threaten to harm the serpent's head (probably with her own foot).

How do you interpret this verse?

The "her" could refer to Mary but probably refers to the faithful Jews, virgin Israel, the betrothed of the Lord, from whom the Messiah (the one who crushes the serpent's head) comes.

 

[Estro Felino]

The "her" could refer to Mary but probably refers to the faithful Jews, virgin Israel, the betrothed the Lord, from whom the Messiah (the one who crushes the serpent's head) comes.

No. αὐτῆς refers to gynaikos (woman). So, it refers to Eve.

 

[1213]

The text in Greek is:

καὶ ἔχθραν θήσω ἀνὰ μέσον σοῦ καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῆς γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματός σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς· αὐτός σου τηρήσει κεφαλήν, καὶ σὺ τηρήσεις αὐτοῦ πτέρναν.

that is: I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your descendance and her descendance. Her descendance (her offspring) will watch against your head and you will watch against her offspring's heel.

The Greek term used here implies that another woman, that is, the woman who descended from Eve will threaten to harm the serpent's head (probably with her own foot).

How do you interpret this verse?

Interesting that many translations have "he" instead of "she", Young's and Green's literal translations have also "he". Surprisingly King James has "it".

I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel.”
Gen. 3:15 World English Bible

 

[Estro Felino]

Interesting that many translations have "he" instead of "she", Young's and Green's literal translations have also "he". Surprisingly King James has "it".

I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel.”
Gen. 3:15 World English Bible

1) autos is neither feminine nor neuter. It is masculine. So...I guess "he: is kind of the right pronoun..

2) "bruise" is not the right term. The verb tereo means "watch against" so I guess it is the attitude of someone who is in front of a snake and threatens him to hit him with something ( like a sword, or simply with the foot).

 

[Kenny]

The text in Greek is:

καὶ ἔχθραν θήσω ἀνὰ μέσον σοῦ καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῆς γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματός σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς· αὐτός σου τηρήσει κεφαλήν, καὶ σὺ τηρήσεις αὐτοῦ πτέρναν.

that is: I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your descendance and her descendance. Her descendance (her offspring) will watch against your head and you will watch against her offspring's heel.

The Greek term used here implies that another woman, that is, the woman who descended from Eve will threaten to harm the serpent's head (probably with her own foot).

How do you interpret this verse?

I view it this way (interpretively) :
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between the seed of thy son, and the seed of her sons; and it shall be when the sons of the woman keep the commandments of the law, they will be prepared to smite thee upon thy head; but when they forsake the commandments of the law, thou wilt be ready to wound them in their heel. Nevertheless for them there shall be a medicine, but for thee there will be no medicine; and they shall make a remedy for the heel in the days of the King Meshiha.

Targum Jonathan on Genesis 3:15

 

[Brian2]

No. αὐτῆς refers to gynaikos (woman). So, it refers to Eve.

Yes I suppose you are right, and the one who crushed the serpent's head in Jesus.
I find it interesting that Jesus is said to be the descendant of the woman. To me it might be hinting at the virgin birth.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes I suppose you are right, and the one who crushed the serpent's head in Jesus.
I find it interesting that Jesus is said to be the descendant of the woman. To me it might be hinting at the virgin birth.

That would match with autos perfectly. But it would be interesting to read the Hebrew text too.

 

[Estro Felino]

I view it this way (interpretively) :
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between the seed of thy son, and the seed of her sons; and it shall be when the sons of the woman keep the commandments of the law, they will be prepared to smite thee upon thy head; but when they forsake the commandments of the law, thou wilt be ready to wound them in their heel. Nevertheless for them there shall be a medicine, but for thee there will be no medicine; and they shall make a remedy for the heel in the days of the King Meshiha.

Targum Jonathan on Genesis 3:15

@Brian2
That's very interesting. If we read the Latin text, the subject of the second sentence is ipsa (which means she, the same woman). And it is underlined that the woman will crush the serpent's head (caput tuum).
inimicitias ponam inter te et mulierem et semen tuum et semen illius ipsa conteret caput tuum et tu insidiaberis calcaneo eius.

As we know, Jerome translated the Vulgate directly from the Masoretic text.

 

[Brian2]

@Brian2
That's very interesting. If we read the Latin text, the subject of the second sentence is ipsa (which means she, the same woman). And it is underlined that the woman will crush the serpent's head (caput tuum).
inimicitias ponam inter te et mulierem et semen tuum et semen illius ipsa conteret caput tuum et tu insidiaberis calcaneo eius.

As we know, Jerome translated the Vulgate directly from the Masoretic text.

Yes I have heard a variety of interpretations and I don't know if "seed" "offspring" is meant to be singular or plural.
I looked up a couple of Tanakh translations:
From the Jewish Virtual Library: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/berei****-genesis-chapter-3
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; they shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise their heel.'
From Chabad library: https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8167
Gen 3:15 And I shall place hatred between you and between the woman, and between your seed and between her seed. He will crush your head, and you will bite his heel."

Sometimes it seems that more than one translation can be legitimate, and this might be on purpose from God so that the Jews can interpret it one way and Christians another, using an alternative translation at times.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I had a post up but forgot I was in scripture debates and started drifting away from scripture and towards archeology. It was only up for a few minutes, but if somebody was working up a reply I am sorry for taking the post down while you were doing so. I'm on staff, so I have to scrutinize how I debate about scripture. It should really be a scripture journey shouldn't it.

 

[Estro Felino]

I had a post up but forgot I was in scripture debates and started drifting away from scripture and towards archeology. It was only up for a few minutes, but if somebody was working up a reply I am sorry for taking the post down while you were doing so. I'm on staff, so I have to scrutinize how I debate about scripture. It should really be a scripture journey shouldn't it.

Really? I didn't read it. I bet it was interesting.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Really? I didn't read it...I bet it was very interesting.

In this case it was not, however thank you. My post actually read like a case of schizophrenia, and I'm glad I deleted it. I enjoyed Ken's post that had an interpretation by the targums.

I would mention the story of Deborah and Barak in judges. Barak is supposed to be a messianic figure, but the honor is given to Deborah instead. That story is in Judges 4. In a way she was a female messiah, although things that happen in Judges are not necessarily true or good either. They are stories about a wild Israel that has left the Torah behind. It may be that this was a story about something which ought not to have happened, and I don't know. Even so, that text suggests being a messiah is not actually a matter of sex or even being from a particular lineage.

I'd also mention the story of Sampson's riddle, which I have always remained interested in. To me it seems to be about the feminine within or over the masculine. It is female Delilah who suppresses male Sampson, and it is sweet honey (Torah) which comes from the carcass of the lion (Judah). Can it be argued that this puzzle is trying to make that case? No. I don't think there is an argument there, however it represents that the idea is present in the mind of the writer of the story.

[Jdg 14:14, 18 NIV] 14 He replied, "Out of the eater, something to eat; out of the strong, something sweet." For three days they could not give the answer. ... 18 Before sunset on the seventh day the men of the town said to him, "What is sweeter than honey? What is stronger than a lion?" Samson said to them, "If you had not plowed with my heifer, you would not have solved my riddle."​

If we have read the pentateuch and the psalms we know that sweetness here is a symbol of the torah, because Psalm 119 rejoices that the torah is sweeter than honey. Therefore in this passage here we have a riddle which is answered by another riddle and which itself altogether may be considered a puzzle which is saying something about the torah and also Judah which is called a lion (by Joseph in Genesis 49). It is not intended as a puzzle, however it is a puzzle which reveals the mind of the writer. This person believes that might is not right. Sampson has all the might that a man may have, but it is weak as he has left the Torah (his source of strength). But the Torah being sweet is like the feminine, and I think the writer thinks so. Anyways the writer is constantly batting about male and female things. Sampson's jealousy is aroused, and he kills the philistines who guess his riddle but can't seem to conquer Delilah.

 

[Fool]

The text in Greek is:

καὶ ἔχθραν θήσω ἀνὰ μέσον σοῦ καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῆς γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματός σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς· αὐτός σου τηρήσει κεφαλήν, καὶ σὺ τηρήσεις αὐτοῦ πτέρναν.

that is: I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your descendance and her descendance. Her descendance (her offspring) will watch against your head and you will watch against her offspring's heel.

The Greek term used here implies that another woman, that is, the woman who descended from Eve will threaten to harm the serpent's head (probably with her own foot).

How do you interpret this verse?

if you look up the root word for the word itself, it's a soothsayer, an oracle. so it's not a literal reptile but a human.

serpent in hebrew
H5175 - nāḥāš - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

root word of serpent in hebrew
H5172 - nāḥaš - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)


so the spiritual wise are opposed by the spiritual dead heads. kind of like your holy men in contrast to your not holy men.

the physical vs the mental basically. in this idea it would be your id in opposition to your superego

 

[Kenny]

@Brian2
That's very interesting. If we read the Latin text, the subject of the second sentence is ipsa (which means she, the same woman). And it is underlined that the woman will crush the serpent's head (caput tuum).
inimicitias ponam inter te et mulierem et semen tuum et semen illius ipsa conteret caput tuum et tu insidiaberis calcaneo eius.

As we know, Jerome translated the Vulgate directly from the Masoretic text.

"Seed" is one of those words that can be interpreted as either one or many. But, if I am not mistaken, it is never taken as the "seed" referencing a woman but rather "seed" is addressed as a male offspring.

So I would assume that it wasn't a woman being referenced?

 

[Estro Felino]

"Seed" is one of those words that can be interpreted as either one or many. But, if I am not mistaken, it is never taken as the "seed" referencing a woman but rather "seed" is addressed as a male offspring.

So I would assume that it wasn't a woman being referenced?

A Hebrew Bible expert could clarify this.

 

[Estro Felino]

if you look up the root word for the word itself, it's a soothsayer, an oracle. so it's not a literal reptile but a human.

serpent in hebrew
H5175 - nāḥāš - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

root word of serpent in hebrew
H5172 - nāḥaš - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)


so the spiritual wise are opposed by the spiritual dead heads. kind of like your holy men in contrast to your not holy men.

the physical vs the mental basically. in this idea it would be your id in opposition to your superego

Of course. The Christian hermeneutics has surely influenced the Vulgate and the Greek Septuagint whose ultimate versions have been written by Christians and for Christians.
Us Christians think the serpent is Satan. Evil.

 

[Fool]

The text in Greek is:

καὶ ἔχθραν θήσω ἀνὰ μέσον σοῦ καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῆς γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματός σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς· αὐτός σου τηρήσει κεφαλήν, καὶ σὺ τηρήσεις αὐτοῦ πτέρναν.

that is: I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your descendance and her descendance. Her descendance (her offspring) will watch against your head and you will watch against her offspring's heel.

The Greek term used here implies that another woman, that is, the woman who descended from Eve will threaten to harm the serpent's head (probably with her own foot).

How do you interpret this verse?

one last thought. jesus referred to the pharisees as a brood of adders. but he also told his disciples to be wise as serpents and as innocent as doves.


so wisdom in ancient times was associated with the idea of the serpent.

all around the world, serpents were symbols of wisdom.

naas. ireland

the naassene


Symbolism of the Serpent

 

[Estro Felino]

In this case it was not, however thank you. My post actually read like a case of schizophrenia, and I'm glad I deleted it. I enjoyed Ken's post that had an interpretation by the targums.

I would mention the story of Deborah and Barak in judges. Barak is supposed to be a messianic figure, but the honor is given to Deborah instead. That story is in Judges 4. In a way she was a female messiah, although things that happen in Judges are not necessarily true or good either. They are stories about a wild Israel that has left the Torah behind. It may be that this was a story about something which ought not to have happened, and I don't know. Even so, that text suggests being a messiah is not actually a matter of sex or even being from a particular lineage.

I'd also mention the story of Sampson's riddle, which I have always remained interested in. To me it seems to be about the feminine within or over the masculine. It is female Delilah who suppresses male Sampson, and it is sweet honey (Torah) which comes from the carcass of the lion (Judah). Can it be argued that this puzzle is trying to make that case? No. I don't think there is an argument there, however it represents that the idea is present in the mind of the writer of the story.

[Jdg 14:14, 18 NIV] 14 He replied, "Out of the eater, something to eat; out of the strong, something sweet." For three days they could not give the answer. ... 18 Before sunset on the seventh day the men of the town said to him, "What is sweeter than honey? What is stronger than a lion?" Samson said to them, "If you had not plowed with my heifer, you would not have solved my riddle."​

If we have read the pentateuch and the psalms we know that sweetness here is a symbol of the torah, because Psalm 119 rejoices that the torah is sweeter than honey. Therefore in this passage here we have a riddle which is answered by another riddle and which itself altogether may be considered a puzzle which is saying something about the torah and also Judah which is called a lion (by Joseph in Genesis 49). It is not intended as a puzzle, however it is a puzzle which reveals the mind of the writer. This person believes that might is not right. Sampson has all the might that a man may have, but it is weak as he has left the Torah (his source of strength). But the Torah being sweet is like the feminine, and I think the writer thinks so. Anyways the writer is constantly batting about male and female things. Sampson's jealousy is aroused, and he kills the philistines who guess his riddle but can't seem to conquer Delilah.

That is very interesting. And in fact the Old Testament can be interpreted only with Old Testament anecdotes.
I am sure there are so many references to Genesis 3:15 among the Prophets' books.

 

[Estro Felino]

one last thought. jesus referred to the pharisees as a brood of adders. but he also told his disciples to be wise as serpents and as innocent as doves.


so wisdom in ancient times was associated with the idea of the serpent.

all around the world, serpents were symbols of wisdom.

naas. ireland

the naassene


Symbolism of the Serpent

That's very true. Wise and prudent.
Meaning that the dove-like purity is not sufficient. Snakes are prudent and stay away from attackers.