Fulfilling the Law

[Tumah]

In Judaism when we speak about the act of performance of a positive commandment, we say "קיום המצוה" - "establishing the commandment." Not performing a positive commandment is called, "ביטול מצוה" - "abolishing a commandment." This type of phraseology can be found in Talmudic literature.

I've had heard Christians interpret Matthew 5:17 as meaning that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law. Using fulfillment to mean "complete" (which would be a different word in Hebrew). And that now there is no need to adhere to the Laws of the so-called "Old Testament."

I found that this word (#4137) in the Greek is found in three places:

Matthew 5:17 "... I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill."
Matthew 3:15 "...it is fitting for us to fulfill righteousness..."
Corinthians 1:25 "...that I might fulfill the preaching..."

If you translate this word to its Hebrew counterpart, then all three of these verses are speaking about the performance of some duty. Matthew 3:15 and 5:17 are speaking about fulfilling the Law or righteousness the same way I fulfill the Law by performing its requirements. Corinthians is speaking about fulfilling a duty of preaching, by performing the act of preaching.

 

[Pegg]

In Judaism when we speak about the act of performance of a positive commandment, we say "קיום המצוה" - "establishing the commandment." Not performing a positive commandment is called, "ביטול מצוה" - "abolishing a commandment." This type of phraseology can be found in Talmudic literature.

I've had heard Christians interpret Matthew 5:17 as meaning that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law. Using fulfillment to mean "complete" (which would be a different word in Hebrew). And that now there is no need to adhere to the Laws of the so-called "Old Testament."

I found that this word (#4137) in the Greek is found in three places:

Matthew 5:17 "... I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill."
Matthew 3:15 "...it is fitting for us to fulfill righteousness..."
Corinthians 1:25 "...that I might fulfill the preaching..."

If you translate this word to its Hebrew counterpart, then all three of these verses are speaking about the performance of some duty. Matthew 3:15 and 5:17 are speaking about fulfilling the Law or righteousness the same way I fulfill the Law by performing its requirements. Corinthians is speaking about fulfilling a duty of preaching, by performing the act of preaching.

Jesus fulfilled the laws purpose, and that was to lead the jews to the Messiah.

Being the messiah, it meant that the law was fulfilled.

 

[Flankerl]

Being the messiah, it meant that the law was fulfilled.

So Cyrus the Great fulfilled the law. Gotcha.

 

[Tumah]

Jesus fulfilled the laws purpose, and that was to lead the jews to the Messiah.

Being the messiah, it meant that the law was fulfilled.

If that was what you got out of that, I don't think you understood any of it.

 

[CMike]

I think it would be harder to get the numbers if they were told that they had actual commandments to do or not do.

 

[Thana]

In Judaism when we speak about the act of performance of a positive commandment, we say "קיום המצוה" - "establishing the commandment." Not performing a positive commandment is called, "ביטול מצוה" - "abolishing a commandment." This type of phraseology can be found in Talmudic literature.

I've had heard Christians interpret Matthew 5:17 as meaning that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law. Using fulfillment to mean "complete" (which would be a different word in Hebrew). And that now there is no need to adhere to the Laws of the so-called "Old Testament."

I found that this word (#4137) in the Greek is found in three places:

Matthew 5:17 "... I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill."
Matthew 3:15 "...it is fitting for us to fulfill righteousness..."
Corinthians 1:25 "...that I might fulfill the preaching..."

If you translate this word to its Hebrew counterpart, then all three of these verses are speaking about the performance of some duty. Matthew 3:15 and 5:17 are speaking about fulfilling the Law or righteousness the same way I fulfill the Law by performing its requirements. Corinthians is speaking about fulfilling a duty of preaching, by performing the act of preaching.

And that is your opinion

Christians don't (or atleast, shouldn't) use that verse, the fulfillment, as an excuse to disobey or disregard the law. However, one should be able to distinguish what is relevant to our culture now and what is not.

Above all, love God and your neighbour and you'll follow the path of righteousness.

I understand your dislike of the term 'Old testament' but it is not meant to be insulting, rather I find that it is a simple way to seperate the bible.

Old does not mean irrelevant.

Kinda sick of hearing people complain about it

 

[Tumah]

And that is your opinion

Well, I guess the question here would be on what basis is my conclusion not a logical and correct one in the interpretation of this verse.

Christians don't (or atleast, shouldn't) use that verse, the fulfillment, as an excuse to disobey or disregard the law. However, one should be able to distinguish what is relevant to our culture now and what is not.

So what you are saying is, the way to determine what laws need to be followed is based on the relevancy to the culture?

Above all, love God and your neighbour and you'll follow the path of righteousness.

And that is your opinion

I understand your dislike of the term 'Old testament' but it is not meant to be insulting, rather I find that it is a simple way to seperate the bible.

Old does not mean irrelevant.

Kinda sick of hearing people complain about it

Well, I wasn't really complaining. But from my perspective there is only one "Testament." Only if I didn't specify to you who believe there are two, you would not know what I am referring to. So instead I found a middle ground.

 

[Thana]

Well, I guess the question here would be on what basis is my conclusion not a logical and correct one in the interpretation of this verse.

Sorry, allow me to rephrase.

'And that is your interpretation'

So what you are saying is, the way to determine what laws need to be followed is based on the relevancy to the culture?

Well, yes when viewing certain parts of the Old testament. Is stoning relevant today? Is animal sacrifice relevant today? Those are just examples, But you see my point?

Some laws just are not relevant or necessary as they once were.

And that is your opinion

Well, not really...

Luke 10:25-27
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.

Well, I wasn't really complaining. But from my perspective there is only one "Testament." Only if I didn't specify to you who believe there are two, you would not know what I am referring to. So instead I found a middle ground.

Fair enough.

 

[CMike]

It seems that jesus commanded that christians have to keep all the laws in the Torah.

(Mat 5:17-20 NRSV) "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. {18} For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. {19} Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. {20} For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven

 

[RabbiO]

In Judaism when we speak about the act of performance of a positive commandment, we say "קיום המצוה" - "establishing the commandment."

One should note, however, that in many instances קיום המצוה, the fulfillment of mitzvot requires, מעשה המצוה, actions that one does in connection with bringing the fulfillment of the mitzvot.

L'shalom,

Peter

 

[CMike]

Jesus fulfilled the laws purpose, and that was to lead the jews to the Messiah.

Being the messiah, it meant that the law was fulfilled.

The purpose of jewish law is to get closer to G-D.

 

[CMike]

Here are some more...

I believe this is Jesus talking.

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19​

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)​

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)​

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)​

 

[Tarheeler]

Here are some more...

I believe this is Jesus talking.

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19​

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)​

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)​

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)​

But why would you use Christian scripture to try to explain Jewish law?

This is something that often disturbed me in threads like this one: Judaism and Christianity are two separate religions, and the teachings of one have nothing to do with the other. We, as Jews, can quote Torah and Talmud, discuss Rashi, Ibn Ezra, and Rambam, and explain Jewish theology until we are blue in the face; it means nothing to Christians because they have their own understanding of God and their own Scriptures, sages, and theologians. They understand the concepts of sin, righteousness, redemption, law, and the messiah much differently than we do.

A lot of good can come from interfaith dialogue, but it needs to be undertaken with an attitude of understanding each other and not chastising or trying to prove each other wrong. They are Christians and they practice Christianity, not Judaism.

 

[CMike]

But why would you use Christian scripture to try to explain Jewish law?

This is something that often disturbed me in threads like this one: Judaism and Christianity are two separate religions, and the teachings of one have nothing to do with the other. We, as Jews, can quote Torah and Talmud, discuss Rashi, Ibn Ezra, and Rambam, and explain Jewish theology until we are blue in the face; it means nothing to Christians because they have their own understanding of God and their own Scriptures, sages, and theologians. They understand the concepts of sin, righteousness, redemption, law, and the messiah much differently than we do.

A lot of good can come from interfaith dialogue, but it needs to be undertaken with an attitude of understanding each other and not chastising or trying to prove each other wrong. They are Christians and they practice Christianity, not Judaism.

I am not explaining jewish law. I am showing them their own law.

Why not? Why should we play defense all the time?

If they can go into Torah scriptures, I can go into christian scriptures.

I didn't even comment on them. They speak for themselves.

According to jesus, christians have to keep every law in the Torah.

 

[Tarheeler]

I am not explaining jewish law. I am showing them their own law.

Why not? Why should we play defense all the time?

If they can go into Torah scriptures, I can go into christian scriptures.

I didn't even comment on them. They speak for themselves.

According to jesus, christians have to keep every law in the Torah.

You're free to do as you please, CMike. I'm just voicing my opinion of it.

 

[roger1440]

It seems that jesus commanded that christians have to keep all the laws in the Torah.

(Mat 5:17-20 NRSV) "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. {18} For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. {19} Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. {20} For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven

True, but you need a little correction with your terms. Jesus’s audience was Jews not Christians. According to the Gospel of Mathew Jesus did not have a problem with the law. His problem was the abuse of the law. The Jews of his day had an outward show but not the inward conviction. The motivation behind observing the law should always be to please God, not man. Judaism is a religion of action. A Jew cannot do right actions with the wrong motivation. If will only attain wrong results. The fulfillment of the law is to be God centered. The law was put into effect as a means for the Jews to focus on God. The goal has always been to focus on God not the Law. Christians are not obligated to keep the Law because they are Gentiles.

 

[Tumah]

True, but you need a little correction with your terms. Jesus’s audience was Jews not Christians. According to the Gospel of Mathew Jesus did not have a problem with the law. His problem was the abuse of the law. The Jews of his day had an outward show but not the inward conviction. The motivation behind observing the law should always be to please God, not man. Judaism is a religion of action. A Jew cannot do right actions with the wrong motivation. If will only attain wrong results. The fulfillment of the law is to be God centered. The law was put into effect as a means for the Jews to focus on God. The goal has always been to focus on God not the Law. Christians are not obligated to keep the Law because they are Gentiles.

All that being said, whether you wear your seat-belt because you like the clicking sound it makes or because it keeps you safe, the law is that you need to wear your seat-belt.

 

[roger1440]

All that being said, whether you wear your seat-belt because you like the clicking sound it makes or because it keeps you safe, the law is that you need to wear your seat-belt.

Are you saying ones incentive to keep the law is irrelevant?

 

[CMike]

True, but you need a little correction with your terms. Jesus’s audience was Jews not Christians. According to the Gospel of Mathew Jesus did not have a problem with the law. His problem was the abuse of the law. The Jews of his day had an outward show but not the inward conviction. The motivation behind observing the law should always be to please God, not man. Judaism is a religion of action. A Jew cannot do right actions with the wrong motivation. If will only attain wrong results. The fulfillment of the law is to be God centered. The law was put into effect as a means for the Jews to focus on God. The goal has always been to focus on God not the Law. Christians are not obligated to keep the Law because they are Gentiles.

I have a bit of a beef of jesus being in a position to lecture anyone. According to judaism he committed one of the greatest sins.

The purpose of the laws of the Torah is to get closer to G-D.

And often actions are better than beliefs. Actions often frame beliefs.

Giving money to the poor has more merit (despite the reason) than just believing in giving money to the poor and not doing it.

Not speaking gossip (regardless of why) is more power than believing in not speaking in gossip and doing it anyway.

As far as keeping all the laws in the Torah, where does jesus make an exception for non jews?

If christians truely believe in what jesus preached. Then based on what he said they should be keeping all 613 laws given in the Torah.

That's what he said, isn't it?

Ask yourself this. Why does G-D have to be pleased? Who are the laws truely for?

 

[CMike]

Are you saying ones incentive to keep the law is irrelevant?

The actions are extremely important. They are more important than the beliefs.