From 'born again' to agnostic

[Wotan]

People take risks all of the time. In taking a risk we are to different degrees placing faith in a thing or a system, or whatever it is. People put faith in stocks, stockbrokers, parachutes, investments, other people, and many such like things. The problem is none of these things can be completely trusted one hundred percent of the time.


Faith in God can be put to a test. I know this from experience. I cannot prove it to you, but I know it for myself. God is not a genie, and He does not cater to selfish requests, but I have witnessed things that defy logic thru the application of faith.

Cute but gutless and dishonest evasion. Why not just answer the question?

 

[Danmac]

Cute but gutless and dishonest evasion. Why not just answer the question?

Since God is God He makes the rules. If He requires faith then that is His right since He is the source of all things. Your question should be to Him and not me. I just play by the rules.

 

[waitasec]

Since God is God He makes the rules. If He requires faith then that is His right since He is the source of all things. Your question should be to Him and not me. I just play by the rules.

are you gods slave then? he has total dominion over your freedom of will...right?
he uses the whip to control your rebellious mind, right
he can cast you into damnation for your lack of faith in him, right?

the god in the bible sounds more like a tyrannical and masochistic god...nice

i think the idea of god was created by a short man
you know, the short mans complex thing

 

[Danmac]

are you gods slave then? he has total dominion over your freedom of will...right?
he uses the whip to control your rebellious mind, right
he can cast you into damnation for your lack of faith in him, right?

the god in the bible sounds more like a tyrannical and masochistic god...nice

i think the idea of god was created by a short man
you know, the short mans complex thing

It is your perception of God that paints Him tyrannical. Your perception appears to be clouded.

 

[waitasec]

It is your perception of God that paints Him tyrannical. Your perception appears to be clouded.

have you read the bible, i'm guessing you'll say yes
but the bible is nothing but stories about gods chosen, and gods enemies

do you really think the creator of everything, the earth our solar system the universe; everything that has to do with our reality is concerned about a little piece of land on this tiny planet? it is as absurd as believing god will cause your favorite soccer team to win the world cup...

 

[Danmac]

have you read the bible, i'm guessing you'll say yes
but the bible is nothing but stories about gods chosen, and gods enemies

do you really think the creator of everything, the earth our solar system the universe; everything that has to do with our reality is concerned about a little piece of land on this tiny planet? it is as absurd as believing god will cause your favorite soccer team to win the world cup...

God is concerned with all lands.

Ge 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

He just chose to operate from one little piece of land.

 

[waitasec]

God is concerned with all lands.

Ge 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

He just chose to operate from one little piece of land.

god plays favorites then....

are you his best follower? are you going to get lots of brownie points, rather bones to chew on, in heaven for your obedience for being a good boy

 

[Danmac]

god plays favorites then....

are you his best follower? are you going to get lots of brownie points, rather bones to chew on, in heaven for your obedience for being a good boy

That is exactly what satan accused God of for putting Jesus on the throne instead of him. You see, Jesus had to prove that His elevation to the throne wasn't the result of favoritism, but humility.

Phillipians 2:5 Let the same disposition be in you which was in Christ Jesus.
6 Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.
7 Nay, He stripped Himself of His glory, and took on Him the nature of a bondservant by becoming a man like other men.
8 And being recognized as truly human, He humbled Himself and even stooped to die; yes, to die on a cross.
9 It is in consequence of this that God has also so highly exalted Him, and has conferred on Him the Name which is supreme above every other,
10 in order that in the Name of JESUS every knee should bow, of beings in Heaven, of those on the earth, and of those in the underworld,
11 and that every tongue should confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD, to the glory of God the Father.

As for me, it is sufficient that my name is recorded in heaven. That is all the gift I need.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

As for me, it is sufficient that my name is recorded in heaven. That is all the gift I need.

And if it's not...?

 

[Autodidact]

Actually I am an agnostic, and of course I agree with your response. It is Danmac who has a problem!

Oops! My mistake.

 

[Autodidact]

As for me, it is sufficient that my name is recorded in heaven. That is all the gift I need.

Or rather, you HOPE it is. You may have gotten the whole thing wrong. After all, you're human, and not famous for your accuracy.

 

[Misty]

That is exactly what satan accused God of for putting Jesus on the throne instead of him. You see, Jesus had to prove that His elevation to the throne wasn't the result of favoritism, but humility.

Phillipians 2:5 Let the same disposition be in you which was in Christ Jesus.
6 Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.
7 Nay, He stripped Himself of His glory, and took on Him the nature of a bondservant by becoming a man like other men.
8 And being recognized as truly human, He humbled Himself and even stooped to die; yes, to die on a cross.
9 It is in consequence of this that God has also so highly exalted Him, and has conferred on Him the Name which is supreme above every other,
10 in order that in the Name of JESUS every knee should bow, of beings in Heaven, of those on the earth, and of those in the underworld,
11 and that every tongue should confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD, to the glory of God the Father.

As for me, it is sufficient that my name is recorded in heaven. That is all the gift I need.

And what proof have you got that it so?

 

[jml03]

People take risks all of the time. In taking a risk we are to different degrees placing faith in a thing or a system, or whatever it is. People put faith in stocks, stockbrokers, parachutes, investments, other people, and many such like things. The problem is none of these things can be completely trusted one hundred percent of the time.


Faith in God can be put to a test. I know this from experience. I cannot prove it to you, but I know it for myself. God is not a genie, and He does not cater to selfish requests, but I have witnessed things that defy logic thru the application of faith.

Amen excellent point.

 

[jml03]

People take risks all of the time. In taking a risk we are to different degrees placing faith in a thing or a system, or whatever it is. People put faith in stocks, stockbrokers, parachutes, investments, other people, and many such like things. The problem is none of these things can be completely trusted one hundred percent of the time.


Faith in God can be put to a test. I know this from experience. I cannot prove it to you, but I know it for myself. God is not a genie, and He does not cater to selfish requests, but I have witnessed things that defy logic thru the application of faith.

A few things that caught my eye as I was catching up on the posts were the posts about Danmac - and the possibility of him being wrong about his name written in Heaven & going there upon his death. He is not the one to fear his death. It is you, that mock and do everything possible to disprove God who should fear. Death is a fact of life and comes too soon for many. But eternity, well, I would not want to be in anyone's place that has mocked and ridiculed His own. We, fortunately do not take your remarks personally, but many - on the other hand, well - there is so much anger in your posts. I believe that can be attributed to your not relating to any Higher Power at all. How sad, that you must have so much turmoil in your lives that it shows up clearly in black and white.

Also, for every ridiculous accusation you make, Danmac finds a scriptural reference to testify to his belief, one way or another you try to admonish the scripture. Thank God for people like Danmac - who can be a witness for Him and have the knowledge to repeat the scriptures when called upon to do so.

 

[Misty]

A few things that caught my eye as I was catching up on the posts were the posts about Danmac - and the possibility of him being wrong about his name written in Heaven & going there upon his death. He is not the one to fear his death. It is you, that mock and do everything possible to disprove God who should fear. Death is a fact of life and comes too soon for many. But eternity, well, I would not want to be in anyone's place that has mocked and ridiculed His own. We, fortunately do not take your remarks personally, but many - on the other hand, well - there is so much anger in your posts. I believe that can be attributed to your not relating to any Higher Power at all. How sad, that you must have so much turmoil in your lives that it shows up clearly in black and white.

Also, for every ridiculous accusation you make, Danmac finds a scriptural reference to testify to his belief, one way or another you try to admonish the scripture. Thank God for people like Danmac - who can be a witness for Him and have the knowledge to repeat the scriptures when called upon to do so.

Threats, threats, threats, NICE faith, NOT!

 

[averageJOE]

A few things that caught my eye as I was catching up on the posts were the posts about Danmac - and the possibility of him being wrong about his name written in Heaven & going there upon his death. He is not the one to fear his death. It is you, that mock and do everything possible to disprove God who should fear. Death is a fact of life and comes too soon for many. But eternity, well, I would not want to be in anyone's place that has mocked and ridiculed His own. We, fortunately do not take your remarks personally, but many - on the other hand, well - there is so much anger in your posts. I believe that can be attributed to your not relating to any Higher Power at all. How sad, that you must have so much turmoil in your lives that it shows up clearly in black and white.

Also, for every ridiculous accusation you make, Danmac finds a scriptural reference to testify to his belief, one way or another you try to admonish the scripture. Thank God for people like Danmac - who can be a witness for Him and have the knowledge to repeat the scriptures when called upon to do so.

Who's afraid to die? Your religion invented an entire afterlife concept out of fear of becoming nothing after death.

Knowing for sure if god exists or not is an impossible task. I will say this though, the Christian god certainily does NOT exist.

 

[logician]

I have a similar story. I was raised in a fundamentalist home as well. I accepted "Jesus into my heart" at the age of three or four. For me though, it was through study of different religions, and my beliefs that led me to become agnostic. From what I've seen, at least in this state, many of the people raised in an fundamentalist home tend to turn to agnosticism. For example, all of my four brothers ended up leaving the fundamentalist idea and became agnostics.

I was raised the same way, but am a strong atheist now. I wouldn't say I was raised as a strict "fundamentalist" though, but a very strong protestant unpbringing.

 

[Autodidact]

A few things that caught my eye as I was catching up on the posts were the posts about Danmac - and the possibility of him being wrong about his name written in Heaven & going there upon his death. He is not the one to fear his death. It is you, that mock and do everything possible to disprove God who should fear. Death is a fact of life and comes too soon for many. But eternity, well, I would not want to be in anyone's place that has mocked and ridiculed His own. We, fortunately do not take your remarks personally, but many - on the other hand, well - there is so much anger in your posts. I believe that can be attributed to your not relating to any Higher Power at all. How sad, that you must have so much turmoil in your lives that it shows up clearly in black and white.

Did you notice how you assumed what we're trying to figure out? Not usually and effective way to reason--or argue.

I'm angry at Danmac because of his bad manners and behavior in several threads.

Read minds much? My life is far from turmoil. It's tranquil, as is most that of most non-believers.

Would you like me to assume that you feel compelled to torn to an imaginary being for comfort because your life is in such turmoil? Not very nice to make assumptions about other people, is it? How about if we stick to the issues instead of leaping to negative conclusions about other community members, O.K.?

Also, for every ridiculous accusation you make, Danmac finds a scriptural reference to testify to his belief, one way or another you try to admonish the scripture. Thank God for people like Danmac - who can be a witness for Him and have the knowledge to repeat the scriptures when called upon to do so.

Yup, he's got scripture to support every one of his statements.

(1) So what? A Muslim has a verse from the qu'ran to support every one of his statements. Do you find that persuasive?

(2) The Bible being what it is, I'm confident I could find a verse that says the opposite of every one he quoted. The Bible is handy that way.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

A few things that caught my eye as I was catching up on the posts were the posts about Danmac - and the possibility of him being wrong about his name written in Heaven & going there upon his death. He is not the one to fear his death.

Then why does he believe in heaven? And why does he put so much trust in going there after death?

It is you, that mock and do everything possible to disprove God who should fear. Death is a fact of life and comes too soon for many. But eternity, well, I would not want to be in anyone's place that has mocked and ridiculed His own.

Firstly: Nobody here has tried to "mock" or "disprove" God.

Secondly: Your threats are pathetic. You might as well tell us to stop saying the things we're going to say or you'll fly to us on your invisible unicorn and hit us with your imaginary hammer. This is a very important lesson for you to learn: People who don't believe hell or punishment after death exists are not going to be threatened by you evoking it.

We, fortunately do not take your remarks personally, but many - on the other hand, well - there is so much anger in your posts. I believe that can be attributed to your not relating to any Higher Power at all. How sad, that you must have so much turmoil in your lives that it shows up clearly in black and white.

More childish taunts and accusations. Why do you feel the need to convince yourself that anybody who questions your faith does so out of anger or turmoil?

Also, for every ridiculous accusation you make, Danmac finds a scriptural reference to testify to his belief, one way or another you try to admonish the scripture. Thank God for people like Danmac - who can be a witness for Him and have the knowledge to repeat the scriptures when called upon to do so.

Too bad he doesn't have the knowledge to think for and answers questions himself.

 

[Autodidact]

jm: I just want to clarify for you. I am not angry at Danmac for being Christian, or for defending or advocating for Christianity. I enjoy that. I am angry at him for repeated and constant evasion, dishonesty and double-standards. Those aren't particularly Christian things, are they?