French or Russian?

[Copernicus]

I have Rosetta Stone and I am still struggling.

I'm a linguist, and I know both French and Russian. I haven't finished reading the thread, but just a quick comment on Rosetta. I haven't used it, but I've heard the commercials for it on the radio. Based on what I heard--that it relies on a "natural" method of language learning--I would say that you ought to supplement it with more traditional materials. You probably have, but the method seems decades outdated. Adults do not learn languages like children. Immersion is important if you really want to master a foreign language. In your case, it is good to speak and learn Russian from recordings, but you ought to hire a Russian tutor if your school does not provide Russian classes and you can afford it.

 

[Copernicus]

The worst part about Russian is that it is ****** up. Seriously! There are six different noun declensions, meaning that the ends of nouns change depending on where they are in the sentence. For example the word "car" has the forms: Машина, Машину, Машины, Машине, Машиной, Машинам, Машинах, Машинами. Not to mention that each verb has a perfect and imperfect aspect, which may not be related in an significant way Брать (imperfect) and Взять (perfect).

Actually, there are even further complications, but don't worry about that. The most important thing is to build your vocabulary when you learn a new language. Russian is hard because its vocabulary differs more from English than Germanic or Romance languages. The grammar takes some getting used to, but it will come with practice.

 

[Gabethewiking]

Isn't this Icelands greatest contribution to the world, because it's all I think of when I think of iceland, well that and Bjork, either way it's not exactly brimming with the cool factor now is it?

I hate that guy.. He is so.. Healthy...

But they do some REALLY good chocolate, the Sirius chocolate got me HOOKED and I am going to, as I just got reminded, to order some, man I love that stuff...

But no, else they really do nothing but taking care of themselves and that.

 

[Copernicus]

You are not alone. It is very hard to discern the difference, because they are basically the same sound.

Not to Russian ears. The hard and soft consonants are psychologically distinct sounds. English speakers tend to hear the soft (palatalized) consonants as the consonant plus the "y" sound. In general, consonants will "color" adjacent vowels, and Russians use those cues to detect which consonants they are hearing.

Well, it might be good to spend some time in Moscow. I feel like living in a where people are more communitarian, would do me some good. For example, Russians are very hospitable, inviting business partners and even acquaintances over to their home, for dinner. And I think living in an area that is less economically viable than the United States would give me more perspective on life. That being said, I am not so sure I would want to spend my life living in Russia. I rather live for an extended period of time in a city like Paris, than Moscow - perhaps. I definitely want to keep my options open in case America goes to hell and I want to bail.

France is more like the US, but the French are less likely to invite you into their homes.

В Русском языке много французких корней, потому что Российская аристокрация отказалась говорить на "холопском" языке и в основном говорила по французки.

During the tsarist period, French had become the most commonly spoken foreign language among the upper class, and they would quite frequently break into French. So a lot of French loan words entered the language (although not as many as in English). It's not really true that they spoke French when they were speaking Russian, but they did mix a lot of French with the Russian.

Зачем вообще выбирать, продолжай учить русский. Если нужна помощь, я русская, спрашивай, помогу.

That's quite a generous offer. You should take her up on that. You can also write me if you have linguistic questions. I started studying Russian in high school, but it is a language that I specialized on as a linguist. I can also answer questions about French.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

I have to take your word on that...

So.. does this mean you are cooler then me? Even if you are Irish? I do not think that counts because of the handicap

If nothing else she is probably cuter. Irish women are...wow. I am going to marry one (and no, it's not monta I am marrying).

 

[Copernicus]

OK, finally finished the whole thread. My recommendation is that you learn both Russian and French. The two languages are sufficiently different that you will probably not get them confused. Go for Russian first, as you need to learn an entirely new set of word roots. The key to building your vocabulary in Russian is studying those word roots. I also recommend that you get a book like Genevra Gerhart's The Russian's World. That is an excellent way to pick up more pragmatic vocabulary than you get in standard texts. The added benefit of learning Russian is that it will make you able to understand word roots in all of the other Slavic languages, just as speakers of other Romance languages can understand some of the sense of other Romance languages when they hear and read them.

French is easier for English speakers because of the huge number of loan words from (mainly Parisian) French. However, I would still say that Spanish is easier than French for English speakers.

German is a good language to learn, but you will find that English is much more commonly spoken in Germany than it is in France or Russia. More importantly, though, Russian will be best for a career in journalism and/or politics. There is much more news coming out of Russia, and the country is more politically significant than France for us.

 

[Kathryn]

Russian would be good to learn, especially if you are traveling through the former soviet bloc countries that border the EU - BUT I still keep trying to make the point that if one wants to be a journalist or travel extensively through that region, German is spoken in nearly all those countries - by many, many more people than speak French. And in most of the EU countries along the Russian border, Russian is NOT spoken or understood well.

So for practicality while traveling through central and eastern Europe, Russian and German are the best tools. French is sexy but impractical in that area of the world.

If learning German is absolutely out of the question, go with Russian - but learn enough German to get around, because in most of Poland, east Germany, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary Russian is not used much, while German is used a LOT.

But what do I know - I only lived there when the Berlin Wall went down and traveled all through the former eastern bloc countries for weeks on end. I can't imagine why anyone would give me a bit of credibility on this topic!

 

[Copernicus]

Kathryn, I understand what you are trying to say, but you speak German. So it would naturally be your experience that a lot of people speak that language. If you travel in Croatia or Poland, you will find German very useful. In Serbia or Bulgaria, you will find Russian of far more use. But I have traveled in Croatia, and I can tell you that knowing Russian is far more useful in terms of understanding the language that you are most likely to encounter.

But this is not really about which language is spoken most widely. It is a question of which language would be most useful for a career in journalism, diplomacy, politics, foreign affairs, etc. Russia is a far more influential country than Germany, and English is very widely (and very well) spoken in Germany. Russian, on the other hand, opens you up not just to communication with a larger population of speakers (who do not typically speak English as well as those who speak a Germanic language), but it gives you a basic vocabulary that opens up Slavic cultures to you. If one could learn just one new language, I would recommend Russian or Chinese. Possibly Japanese or Arabic. If you want an easier language to learn, Spanish will be the most beneficial by far, because so much of the world is Spanish-speaking. German is a great language, but it is not ultimately the most useful language to know from an international perspective. Neither is French, although it used to be far more useful.

 

[Kathryn]

Copernicus, I agree with you on that entire post. I totally agree that Russian would be more widely useful than French OR German - if one is going to be traveling or working mostly in former Soviet Union countries.

My only point was that if one is going to be traveling throughout central AND eastern European countries, German would be more beneficial as a second language than French or Russian. Of course if one is going to be in Russia, learn Russian. German would be of very little help.

I'm frustrated because on this particular thread, it seems that people are not able to comprehend how widely German is spoken throughout Europe - much more widely spoken FLUENTLY than French or even English, especially as one travels east toward Russia.

Actually if someone was going to spend a lot of time in Eastern Europe and former soviet bloc countries, I would recommend that they learn Russian AND a good working knowledge of basic German. The person spending a lot of time traveling back and forth from the UK or the US to eastern European countries would probably be spending a lot of time in the eastern EU countries as well, where German is the most widely used first and second language.

My initial point was to discourage the notion of learning FRENCH over Russian in this case, because it would be absolutely useless. I think the better question would be Russian or GERMAN? And I'd say "Both."

 

[Doc]

If I had to decide between Russian or French, I would definitely go with Russian. Seems more practical from a business standpoint.

I'm actually in my second semester of learning Arabic (I'm working towards minoring in it.) It's going pretty well so far. I'm contracted with the Army as well, so they pay pretty good money for you to learn Mid-East languages. I'm thinking of getting certified with the Defense Department after college.

There is a ton of federal money out there for people who have the willpower to learn Arabic. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Tiapan]

If you want to gear yourself for the future I would be learning Mandarin.

Cheers

 

[Gabethewiking]

Russian would be good to learn, especially if you are traveling through the former soviet bloc countries that border the EU - BUT I still keep trying to make the point that if one wants to be a journalist or travel extensively through that region, German is spoken in nearly all those countries - by many, many more people than speak French. And in most of the EU countries along the Russian border, Russian is NOT spoken or understood well.

So for practicality while traveling through central and eastern Europe, Russian and German are the best tools. French is sexy but impractical in that area of the world.

If learning German is absolutely out of the question, go with Russian - but learn enough German to get around, because in most of Poland, east Germany, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary Russian is not used much, while German is used a LOT.

But what do I know - I only lived there when the Berlin Wall went down and traveled all through the former eastern bloc countries for weeks on end. I can't imagine why anyone would give me a bit of credibility on this topic!

I lived there as well and do not recommend it, how do you explain the discrepancy?

 

[Gabethewiking]

If you want to gear yourself for the future I would be learning Mandarin.

Cheers

Bingo!

 

[Valjean]

Twenty years ago they were saying the same thing about Japanese.

 

[Copernicus]

If learning German is absolutely out of the question, go with Russian - but learn enough German to get around, because in most of Poland, east Germany, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary Russian is not used much, while German is used a LOT.

But what do I know - I only lived there when the Berlin Wall went down and traveled all through the former eastern bloc countries for weeks on end. I can't imagine why anyone would give me a bit of credibility on this topic!

For the sake of travel, German would be most useful in Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary. (Hungarian is more closely related to Finnish and Estonian. Not a Slavic language.) But I still say that your perception is skewed by your ability to speak German, which would make the usefulness of that language more obvious. Russian would make at least some Polish and Czech available to the traveler. If you spoke a Slavic language, you would know the value of a working knowledge of Slavic word roots.

From the perspective of Russian culture and language, French would be a far more useful language than German to know, simply because there have been very strong ties between France and Russia since the 19th century. France had the most pro-Moscow Communist Party in Soviet days, and the language itself has a lot of French loan words.

 

[Gabethewiking]

Twenty years ago they were saying the same thing about Japanese.

I remember that, but being the Mandarine speaking population is something around 1 Billion Native speakers and live in what will soon be the single most Powerful nation on the planet, I think this one is right..

And it is still good to learn Japanese.

 

[monta]

For the sake of travel, German would be most useful in Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary. (Hungarian is more closely related to Finnish and Estonian. Not a Slavic language.) But I still say that your perception is skewed by your ability to speak German, which would make the usefulness of that language more obvious. Russian would make at least some Polish and Czech available to the traveler. If you spoke a Slavic language, you would know the value of a working knowledge of Slavic word roots.

From the perspective of Russian culture and language, French would be a far more useful language than German to know, simply because there have been very strong ties between France and Russia since the 19th century. France had the most pro-Moscow Communist Party in Soviet days, and the language itself has a lot of French loan words.

I think English is replacing German as the second language of choice in Poland, the Polish people I know have a strong dislike for the German Language, it is a sore subject with them

 

[Gabethewiking]

I think English is replacing German as the second language of choice in Poland, the Polish people I know have a strong dislike for the German Language, it is a sore subject with them

Strange, I wonder why.
Perhaps they have seen to many Anti-German movies from Hollywood?

 

[Copernicus]

I think English is replacing German as the second language of choice in Poland, the Polish people I know have a strong dislike for the German Language, it is a sore subject with them

English is the second language of choice in most countries, because it is the international trade language. However, Poles have other reasons for preferring English, particularly American English. Nevertheless, German has strongly influenced the Polish language and Polish culture. Don't forget that it has engulfed the former East Prussia, and Stalin shifted the entire country to the West, taking over former German territories. (My grandmother was born in the so-called "Polish Corridor".)

 

[Kathryn]

I lived there as well and do not recommend it, how do you explain the discrepancy?

I don't know enough about you and your personal history to explain the discrepency.

Nor do I have the time or inclination to try to figure it out!